National club comp lacking a grassroots perspective

Further to the argument in your article Anthony: It would be another disastrous decision to be made by RA is to kill off the NRC and only promote Sydney and Brisbane clubs and then have the audacity to call it a "national club championship". You could not design a more effective way to kill club rugby in the rest of Australia if you tried. It would mean any players from the other states/comps with ambition would migrate to the Syd/Bris clubs, impoverishing the club comps they've left. Even if there was "a club" from these other states that was included, it would mean the demise of the other clubs within the comp as all the players with ambition would be aiming to play for that club. The NRC could be more tribal if the existing clubs were geographically used as feeders to a NRC team. Have more NRC teams, make it a whole season H&A comp, played as curtain raisers to S15/Internationals etc. Cost is more, but isn't that the problem that there is not enough "content"? There is a chicken and egg issue here, you need the content to get the money but need the money to create the content. JON did a huge disservice to rugby in this country when he killed off the ARC (because of 1st year costs), we'd be a dozen years into a ARC/NRC comp. It'd have had several years of good money to use on it, probably would have stopped so much wastage on the Rebels. The content would be available for sale.

Andy, I think it should be “build” and what I would build would be something along the lines of the NRC. Actually, a narrow way to go higher is appropriate. Only a small proportion of players will go higher. Trouble is that with such a narrow base there might not be enough of professional ability.

Agreed, Australian rugby has always been less of a pyramid and more like a flagpole...very wide base, very narrow way to go higher. That has long needed to be addressed, in particular the level that transitions amateurs into entry level professionals. But becoming that stepping stone will have implications and consequences for whoever takes it on. It is the old build or renovate conundrum.

Andy, I get your point now. You are right so, what it needs is for the first tier (clubs) to support the second tier (NRC) and the third tier (SR or whatever it becomes) and the fourth tier (international). It always sounds to me as if RA is trying to build from the top down. The clubs should be the wide base of the pyramid, with fewer and fewer players making their way to the next highest level. It’s a very difficult thing to build this structure so late in the history of professional sport in Australia. At this point I’ve missed level one (the clubs) but I follow the other levels as part of the digital world wide rugby community.

The SS tail is wagging the RA dog...

To which Superugby team does the WA team align to?

Yes, but listen to what I am saying. For people who claim to love their SS/HC club, be it Sydney U, Randwick, Brothers, U of Q, etc, etc, then they need to understand that becoming the third tier means all the grades, juniors, etc associated with your team will have to go. That is what being the third tier means. The team will cease to be a club, and will essentially become more like a franchise. Just like the current NRC teams, or Bath, or Canturbury, or Western Province, or the twams in the corresponding level in the other football codes. If that is what you want for your local team, fine. If not though, might want to say something before they do something dumb.

AndyS: Actually all AFL players come up through the junior ranks in their local clubs, and this is probably true of League players as well (I’ve had nothing to do with league since I was a kid). If the local clubs didn’t exist there would be no professional game, because the players have to learn somewhere. The MANY local clubs do raise money, through gate takings, canteens, sponsorships raffles etc and pay their senior players and provide network s of mates who help each other with jobs etc. This is the grassroots that feeds the professional game. The problem for Union is that it doesn’t have as strong a grassroots base as its competitors have.

Sure, just like subbies do in rugby. But Richmond doesn't, even in the VFA. Nor do the WAFL and SANFL clubs. They might have a reserves team and some colts, but none of that other stuff - that all went in pursuit of professionalism. So if that is the role that the Shute Shield clubs are planning to assume, as the somewhat professional under-tier to the professional game, it will all fall away from them too. Because professionalism demands money - all the money. And if it runs out, they cease to exist. So long as everyone understands that is the dice being rolled when they go down that path, no problems. Otherwise, the old unintended consequences may bite hard.

Plenty have jumped on board in WA - there's no reason this can't happen in other states. Unless of course a bitter group of clubs decides to white ant the comp. NRC could be huge in NSW if the clubs had backed it

Sure does, and I think in a way it is, but it places control/responsibility in the hands of the clubs to ensure their buy-in. I'm pretty sick of having to appease these folks, tbh

Anthony how right you are. As someone who has been engaged in the game as player and administrator for over 60 years I have never seen the game in such poor condition. The quality of play at Super level is in the main appalling. School football and club football is where skill and daring is most often on display. The higher levels of Rugby in Australia hardly bear watching. I am now a watcher in the main of "Queensland" only. Note the ommission of the word "Reds" a word that means nothing. The quality, expertise, ability and experience at the top of the game appears to be sadly lacking. These qualities are to be often found in abundance at club level. Such is the rot that has set in that it appears that the ARU and some of the state bodies are teetering on the brink of financial disaster. As for the game itself it is no longer the spectacle it used to be - it is boring. How many of you are forced to watch and listen to commentators as they wax lyrical about the numbers of phases that teams engaage in. It is crash and bash and Rugby League without the six tackle rule and players catching the ball and their opponent at the same time. GOOD RUGBY - I don't think so. I believe somebody has to take a good hard look at the Laws of the game and the entrenched administrators before it is too late and before we no longer have a product. Are there people at the top now who are there for what the game can bring to them not what they can bring to the game? Think about it. They will deny it but the results speak for themselves. The evidence is there for all to see.

MR: I liked your post, but League has ALWAYS been professional – not just from the 1970s. That is the basis of its split from Rugby. Working men (the majority) had to be paid for the time they put into the game. Toffs didn’t. In the 60s and 70s, League in NSW was largely financed by pokies in the league clubs (which is why they have state of origin – not just NSW v Qld – cash strapped Qld where pokies were illegal, couldn’t compete with cashed up NSW). So, what possible revenue sources are there for Rugby? There have to be a lot more than ticket sales, and media rights look like being insufficient. Sponsors like Twiggy, hopefully? Rich owners – why would they? What/s needed here is disinterested brainstorming. Andy S, the very many grassroots Aussie Rules and League clubs most definitely have juniors, grades, volunteers, local sponsors, canteens,etc etc – all the paraphernalia of actual clubs. They are the bases of the pyramids whose points are the professional game.

Nah. It was 3rd tier. That's not disputable. Super Rugby reserves would be in the 3rd tier. You never watched Mitre 10 Cup?

No. The teams were. Because they wanted control of the teams. Much like the QRU pays for the Reds.

But they still are because they've maintained enormous support. Single clubs exceed the total weekly Shute Shield attendance. They cut those that were too weak for the modern pro level. Not picked the best to maintain X amount of clubs in Melbourne. Every Shute Shield Club would fall into that category. None could average 5,000 to home games across a season.

Soapit that's the thing. NSWRL and the VFL became the NRL and AFL off their own back. People like Micko are saying RA should dump the limited funds they have to make SS that. Not even comparable.

Angus Bell, a 19 year old who has been playing Super Rugby this year, missed most of the SS season in 2019 due to Junior Wallabies, and was in the Waratahs system is a Shute Shield product? He's probably played more NRC than Shute Shield. Matt Toomua was signed by the Brumbies out of high school. He was a full time pro, made his debut a year out of school, and merely played for Easts when not selected for the Brumbies. How is he a Shute Shield product? Every player who plays a single game in Sydney you try to claim as a Shute Shield product.

Nah Bourkos don't you know 10,000 people came to the first ever Rats vs Marlins derby...

Agree Manlyroo. While everyone has been discussing the idea in light of what currently exists, it would be nice to think they all understand how it would evolve. When you look at all the examples being held up; the AFL, NRL, NH comps etc; it is worth noting what they don't have. Such as grades, juniors, and all the paraphenalia of an actual club. Or volunteers involved in running it. All that goes away, and once gone it is gone forever. Very early in the piece the point will be passed where any team that fails, ceases to exist. If they are lucky they might relocate or merge, but they don't go back to being an extended part of the community. All that will have gone elsewhere, so it is an all in bet for any team who decides to get involved putting everything they are and all their accumulated tradition on the line. And for those that survive, much will never be the same again. By necessity that professionalism will include their relationship with supporters too, who will become a cash crop to harvest and kept at a distance except under carefully controlled conditions. To be what is necessary within Australian rugby, it will have to mean the death of what it is now. As long as everyone is good with that...