Western Force lock down skipper with contract extension

How can anyone from NSW criticise the Western force, playing in their first year with a cobbled together last minute team compared to the Waratahs with a 130 years of history, the largest rugby catchment by far and are just perennial failures. The Force fans have never felt the need to boo their team off the field. When you have your players preferring to play elsewhere you must have internal dissatisfaction. I would suggest you just back off and let the West get on.

None of those franchises you say competed from day 1 had to start 10 years behind though. NZ also had the NPC teams to build a new franchise that was not in place in Australia? You also cannot use a mentality that works for a small island like NZ and apply it to a continent that is 29 times bigger. I have provided the outcomes for the Canes, Highlanders and Chiefs for their first 11 years and it is clear that they were a class below the Blues and Saders for at least the first decade. It was only after 2007 when talent were better distributed across franchises that these NZ sides became more competitive however that came at a cost: for the past 16 years the Auckland Blues, the city that produces the most AB and professional players couldn’t make a single final!

WA 2018 figures are not beginning 2018 but full 2018 after Forrest went on a recruitment drive from May, setup a series of Force exhibition games with entertainment and made a public call to support Rugby Union. Beginning 2018 is where RA left us for dead...but you know that as I have explained that over and over again.

NZRA (and the NZ public) does not want to waste their time and $$ playing against the Force. We may not like it, but it’s simple reality. NZRA is talking to the Force to play in NZ next year. Waxy maybe you need to call the NZRA and set them straight?

Thank you ozinsa. The lack of action from RA is frustrating.

@in brief. The measurement used to judge the competitiveness of the Force is the number of times we made the finals and the number of titles won. The Superugby period must to be split in two: the pre-2007 period before NZRU spread talent across their franchises and the post 2007 when NZRU did. Spreading the talent across the franchises benefitted the Chiefs, Canes and Highlanders at the cost of the biggest producer of talent Auckland and to a much lesser extend Canterbury. In the first 11 years the Chiefs made the playoffs only once in 2003. The Canes made the finals in 1997, 2003 and 2005. The Highlanders qualified for the finals in 1998, 1999 and 2000 and then only once in 2002 in the next 15 seasons. Just like the Force not a single one of these teams won the Superugby title in the first 11 years. The second tier NZ franchises were made up of strong and mature provinces that played in the NZ NPC for decades - a much better starting position than what the Force and Rebels had. Waxheads memory is a little bit rosy, these teams were also runs while the “heartlands” of NZ rugby Auckland Blues and the Canterbury Crusaders dominated. In that 11 year period the Saders won the title 6 times and the Blues 3 times, with the Brumbies winning two titles in 2001 and 2004. Just like the Force did they won the occasional game against their more favourite NZ franchises but there was a lack of depth and consistency. After 2007 the NZRU spread their talent much better across their franchises. Since then the Blues could not make a single final. Can you imagine our biggest player producer NSW do that? That is 16 years or 3 years longer than the Force played Superugby. The Chiefs made finals 3 times and won the title twice, the Canes played finals twice and won the title once and the Highlanders played finals once when they won the title once. The Crusaders is the outlier that continued to perform with 6 finals appearances and winning the title 4 times. I couldn’t confirm it but I understand that the majority of NZ professional players still grows up in Auckland. NZ rugby went through a purple patch during the period they put the national interest above that of Auckland.

He wants to learn how to play Rugby he’d be better learning from Bellamy.

Ex -Force, I think you’re “ deluded” to say your the second biggest code after AFL in Perth. The facts are this . The two AFL clubs take Lions share of the people preference in Metro & Regional Perth. The next big Team to follow are the “ Wildcats” by country mile. The Glory have had good seasons, but spectator wise their followings have been heavily dependant on time of day , Foxsports & A-League Time slots effecting their attendances. Every time NRL comes town the attendances are far better than the Western Force’s ,so actual indicators lead to the facts that we should have a NRL team here in Perth. It’s only the Welsh & Saffa’s which are actually brainwashed into thinking there’s only One code of sport you can play watch anyway in the world. “Get over it I say”. The two big Codes is OZ are AFL & Rugby League. One is great to watch. Probably has the best toughest most skilful athletes in World Rugby. Has definitely the hardest domestic comp in the World. The other one nobody else is remotely interested, as soon as you fly past Bali. Even the Chinese aren’t interested and the Irish beat the professionals when play the Mickey Mouse International Rules games once a flood. Rugby participation in Perth is fine and OK , but not outstanding and dramatic, as you say and try make us all believe? Junior take up is fine, but again it’s your family background and traditions which often dictates your kids direction of sporting choice. Adult team are really poor to watch with poor skill levels lack of fitness in most teams. And, sorry I wasn’t talking about the Force there either , but the local FMG comp. The Force are a Total disgrace regarding Fitness never mind skill levels. I thought they were a Professional Organisation. “Really showed how GRR was bloody Circus really.“ Joke competition.. NRLWA are doing a sterling job in WA, as whole and are really kicking goals with woman’s involvement. TAG teams are growing . Contact sides are growing. Junior & Mens team probably need more funding from head office ,but if the NRL did pump the right amount of cash in the right places watch this space. Regional NRL beats the ARU Hands down. Waxhead Is actually stating the obvious and the correct facts and some people can’t except the facts in front of them. How many times have the Force been competitive is Super Rugby? Answer is NEVER. “Take off the big chip off the shoulder pads and start to smell the coffee.”

@ozinsa To be fair, we heard exactly the same thing from the Force (and their fans) for 12 years. 12 years we waited and they never delivered. And they were ditched because (for many reasons) they did not deliver. The world has changed in that 15 yrs since Force made their SR debut. RA is now in financial ruin - maybe bankrupt. Pro sport, now more than ever, cannot afford passengers and does not take prisoners. NZRA (and the NZ public) does not want to waste their time and $$ playing against the Force. We may not like it, but it's simple reality. How long do you think we should wait for the Force to deliver - 20 yrs - 50 yrs. Who's gonna pay for it? Who's gonna watch it? As I've explained, the financials, and realities, don't add up to the Force being a viable SR franchise atm unless ........ a) RA relaxes their salary cap. b) Twiggy spends $8-10M every season buying a high quality squad. c) Twiggy doesn't poach any player from any other aussie SR province. d) Twiggy buys 20-30 new and much better players for the 2021 comp. c) has already been been violated with the Force taking Robertson from NSW.

@In Brief you can verify it yourself by looking at SR past results. Those NZ provinces may have come last in a SR comp in some years but that is not the issue. I said "consistently competitive." That does not mean consistently win either. It means being competitive almost every game. The Chiefs came last in SR NZ this year but every game they played was close. The Force were not competitive in 2020 in at least 2 games against inferior aussie competition. Their 24-0, 28-8, 31-14 and 57-5 results were not competitive games imo. They did not win a game and never looked like winning a game. So I call them mostly uncompetitive in 2020. RA and some members here want to put them up against NZ provinces in 2021. How would they have gone against NZ provinces in 2020? I think we would have seen constant thrashings by 30+ points every game. Crudaders, Hurricanes, Blues would have put 80-100 points on them routinely. That's why NZ doesn't want to waste their time playing against them. I don't want to watch it either. And that's why Force need 20-30 new and much better players to even survive :thumbup:

I doubt the Force will develop Ready. Nothing against the Force. But he’s been there for close to 2 years and hasn’t developed much.

But only because he was unhappy at the Reds first though

None of those franchises you say competed from day 1 had to start 10 years behind though. Also results suggest the Chiefs did not compete from day 1 in fact. Far from it.

WA numbers were already in decline from 2014. And the drop in 2018 was similar to 2017. And that was similar to 2016. That’s according to Rugby WA’s reporting.

@Greysie Oh I watched the Force games alright - even though they continued to bore me and it was sometimes a struggle not to turn them off. I've got several mates who will not watch any game involving the Force only because they are boring and lack high quality skills I'd only keep J Lance cos imo he and J Thrush were their best players in 2021 imo. Jeremy at 37 will be too old for SR in 2021. Guys like Ralston or Lee-Warner don't have big potential imo and you're still thinking mediocrity is good enough to survive at SR level - it's not. Same with Godwin - he's a journey man - a decent solid player who kicks too much. But you need much better than him in the centres to be consistently competitve against NZ opposition. The Force need real fire power in the backs in 2021. It's counter productive to poach them from other aussie provinces. So either buy current OS based aussies of international standard, or else buy foreign Test players with no salary cap on Force recruiting. Anything else and the Force will continue to be a failure imo

Cameron Smith best rugby captain - thanks, you just gave me a great belly laugh!

'And it did not take many years for Chiefs, Highlanders, Hurricanes to “compete” against other NZ provinces.' Can anyone verify this comment? What about the Crusaders? I remember the Blues were the dominant team in 1996. 'They were consistently competitive from day 1.' There's a big difference between your two statements - was is 'years' or 'day 1'?

The word was that Rodda wanted to move to the Brumbies to learn under Fisher. So it happens

Outside of some complaints from established teams, what would motivate RA to stop the Force bringing in marquee talent (over a salary cap)? I'd be more likely to watch the Force play if they had a few flair players I knew would entertain and give them a chance to win.

While WA are courting NZ it puts the SRAU 2021 in jeopardy. Should they not also show some commitment?