Questions for Collingwood

By Les Zig / Roar Guru

Having written a number of pieces for The Roar, have you become aware that I like to yell at clouds?

Would you be surprised to learn I do this because Collingwood constantly troubles me?

Would you be shocked to hear me tell you that since the 2018 grand final they’ve gone backwards?

And that over those two years I’ve stockpiled a list of questions?

For instance, who agreed to the Dayne Beams deal? Why did Collingwood prioritise a midfielder when they had a dearth of key positioners? Who failed to do the due diligence on Beams? Or did Collingwood do the due diligence and move forward with the deal anyway? Was it a politicised move designed to beautify Collingwood’s image and show that one of their prodigal sons would return home?

Why did Collingwood overpay to acquire him given they didn’t desperately need him? Since Brisbane were eager to offload him, couldn’t Collingwood have taken a harder line? Why did Collingwood allow themselves to be dictated to when they held a stronger position? Was a 29-year-old midfielder really worth two first-round draft picks? Did Collingwood ever consider walking away from the deal?

Who at Collingwood didn’t factor in how Beams’s contract would bloat their salary cap and force James Aish to be squeezed out just one year later? And then to cause what looks like a fire sale two years later? Do these people not know how salary caps work? Isn’t that a handicap given the running of the club requires an understanding of finances?

Dayne Beams. (Photo by Dylan Burns/AFL Photos)

Come 2019, who decided to abandon the daring, exciting, running game that catapulted the Pies up the ladder in 2018 and revert to a slow, indirect, possession-heavy game plan that saw Collingwood play stagnant, uninspiring, backwards football in 2019?

Are the club truly oblivious that what we saw was the same indecisive, error-laden strategy that shot them to mediocrity in 2014, 2015, 2016 and 2017? Who thought this was a good style to resurrect?

Was it the same people who decided to play a high-possession style for three quarters in the deluge that flooded the 2019 preliminary final? Coming out of 2019, were there not warnings about what to avoid for 2020? Why did they persevere? What is the definition of insanity? Is it trying this gameplan again? Are Collingwood just trolling us? Will they unveil a banner at some point that simply says, ‘Punked!’?

Given Collingwood’s lack of quality key positioners, why did they not retain a draft pick to net Jake Riccardi? Isn’t a prospective key forward exactly what they need? Why do they instead draft a preponderance of flanker types? Why do they insist on accumulating a swath of smaller, lighter players? When players are getting bigger and stronger across the competition, why are Collingwood persevering with lighter and smaller?

Why do Collingwood seem to believe that the best way of filling a key position is by recruiting a ruckman? Given the game has had only one genuinely freakish ruck-sized forward (Paul Salmon), why do Collingwood persevere with this strategy?

If they’re going to insist on this strategy, why is it they seemed to exile Mason Cox for a chunk of 2020? If they’re going to use Mason Cox as a forward, why do they not play him out of the goal square? Wouldn’t that seem the logical place to position a goliath? Wouldn’t you orbit crumbers at his feet? Wouldn’t you then try and get the ball in there quickly and directly? Is this too logical? Do Collingwood and logic not go together?

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While other clubs found ways to retain assistants in 2020, why is it Collingwood abandoned the highly rated Gary Hocking? Did they explore options to keep some of the assistant coaches? Given the grand finalists did, wouldn’t it have seemed a good idea to remain as staffed as possible? If coaches had to be cast off, wouldn’t you cast off coaches whose messages are now well known?

Why do they continue to rely on the same triumvirate of Nathan Buckley, Robert Harvey and Brenton Sanderson that has failed to produce ultimate success? Why do they believe that this triptych will generate new ideas given that in 2020 they decided regression was their best means forward? Doesn’t it tell the club something that their assistants Justin Longmuir and Matthew Boyd have been taken but the incumbents remain blissfully ignored?

Remember that criticism about the way Collingwood played in 2019? Why did they do it all over through the bulk of 2020? At what point do these people realise this game plan is not going to click? How many more seasons do they need to try it before they see what everybody else has been complaining about?

Given none of their forwards were offering the same return they did in 2018, why did nobody at the club consider going back to the strategies employed in that season? Why did it take until their first final against the Eagles for a change to be wrought? Is it a case of 18th time’s a charm? Is this any way to run a team? In 2021 should we expect our best game to be in Week 1 of the finals? Do we really expect to make finals again playing stodgy football?

(Photo by Ryan Pierse/Getty Images)

Is there a possibility that we might address our midfield woes? Can we teach our dominant ruckman and midfielders to communicate? Why hasn’t this been remedied? Do they not realise it was a significant factor in the 2018 grand final loss? And then throughout 2019? And then again in the 2019 preliminary final loss? And then throughout 2020? What was that definition of insanity again? Is it a surprise that keeps coming up?

When Brodie Grundy and his manager demanded a seven-year contract, who thought that was a good idea for a ruckman so reliant on his athleticism? Who determined that Grundy would still be effective in seven years given all Collingwood’s recent history with tall players – Darren Jolly, Nathan Brown, Ben Reid, Travis Cloke – is that they’ve all experienced rapid declines? Do they think Grundy will be the exception? Why? Is Collingwood truly a club where longevity exists?

If Grundy is so prized, why did Collingwood not rest him when they had that packed schedule of four games in four different states in 14 days? Why does it seem from the outside looking in that they ran him into the ground? Why did they not rotate more heavily through this period? Why did they not try their other draftees, rather than going back to more of the same?

(Photo by Mark Metcalfe/Getty Images)

Why has nobody advised the president to keep a low profile? How can he have committed a string of gaffes in recent years and still be given license to blather? How is it nobody suggested he shouldn’t publicly come out so strongly over COVID indiscretions given how horribly it could possibly backfire?

After it did backfire, why did nobody tell him outright just to shut up and not say anything that could come back to bite him and the club? When it bit him yet again, did he – and the club – not realise what a laughing-stock they appeared? How has nobody reconciled that these distractions are harmful to the team’s preparation?

How is it that this keeps happening over the years and yet it’s never remedied? Do they think at some point that all the bluster will work? How well did it work for John Elliot at Carlton? Is there any fear that such a long presidency will – as it did at Carlton with John Elliott – lead to stagnancy and poor decision-making? Has that day already come? Is it already long behind us? What do you think?

Why did Eddie McGuire state that Jeremy Cameron was always going to Geelong like Tom Lynch was always going to Richmond? Is McGuire not aware that we expect the club to seduce players into choosing Collingwood as their destination over our rivals? Isn’t that how recruiting and free agency works? Can he not fathom that we want to believe we’re in with a chance of snaring these sorts of players?

(Photo by Quinn Rooney/Getty Images)

If those clubs got to those players earlier, why is that the case? Why weren’t we the first? Do we just give up? Can’t we poach them the way Sydney poached Lance Franklin from going to GWS and Kurt Tippett from going to Brisbane? Did we try? Can we at least try? Or is the actual truth that those clubs are just run better than Collingwood?

Why is it that Collingwood so rarely seems the destination of choice for big names? Are Collingwood that unattractive? How do Richmond and Geelong manage these deals and keep their salary caps in check while Collingwood has to jettison players to keep the list they have?

Who decided to sign Adam Treloar to a humongous deal and long-term contract after he tore both hamstrings in 2018 and hasn’t yet proven his return to full capacity? How does a player they fought hard to court and bring to the club so quickly become sacrificial? Why has it been revealed that he might be “hard to coach”? Have they considered it’s not that he’s “hard to coach” but that he’s badly coached? Have they considered he might fare better on the outside where he can use his run?

How has this whole Treloar affair been handled so clumsily? Is it healthy for the club and their brand for this to be aired so publicly? Doesn’t this look like amateur hour? And we’re expecting these people to continue running the club? Is their intent to run it into the ground? Have they seen their members voice their disapproval on social media? As an aside, given a 2020 membership meant nothing in Victoria due to COVID, will the club discount 2021 memberships?

Since Treloar seems such a popular figure, have Collingwood considered how this treatment of him could affect morale? If they’re going to ditch Treloar, wouldn’t other players feel they might also be at risk down the line? Wouldn’t prospective recruits fear the same could happen to them should they come to Collingwood? If I’m the next big thing looking for a new club, why would I choose Collingwood after this debacle?

Going back to Dayne Beams, why has his contract settlement become such a protracted saga? While the club assures us that everything will be fine, do they realise how frustrated supporters are that this deal has compromised their list management? How is it that it seems we’re struggling to hold onto players and yet we’re holding onto somebody who doesn’t want to play?

Have they done everything possible to reconcile with Heritier Lumumba?

Why does Jordan de Goey seem so wayward?

Why did they arbitrarily delist Matthew Scharenberg rather than trade him out, even if it was for a low pick?

How could they consider trading Jaidyn Stephenson? Do they really believe one bad season in a young player’s career makes him expendable? Do they remember he won the Norwich Rising Star in 2018? Do they recall he was playing just fine as a forward in 2019 until his suspension?

How can other clubs efficiently manage contract negotiations but all the big contracts at Collingwood become more convoluted than a Netflix limited series?

While opposition clubs are targeting important needs and quality recruits, how does Collingwood plan to galvanise their list? What is going on with the list? Why is it that we hear so much about the possible outgoings and yet we’re not legitimately connected to a single incoming?

Mason Cox. (Photo by Paul Kane/Getty Images)

Are they going to address their gameplan? Is there a chance that they might devise a game plan for the playing list at their disposal? Or are we going to see yet again the return of the horrible game plan? Do they know that most fans don’t know what to expect from week to week? Are they aware that 2018 simply looks like an outlier?

What is their vision for the future? Do they have a plan for the future? Aren’t they concerned that opposition clubs are moving past them? If they claim they are right in the mix, are they unaware that the ladder for the last two seasons suggests otherwise?

Given Collingwood finished second in 2018, fourth in 2019 and sixth in 2020, what is their plan for 2021 to arrest their downward trend? Is their plan realistic? How close do they think they are to a premiership? Are they still operating off the currency of 2018? Do they not understand how quickly it can change? Have they not seen that it has already changed?

If they truly don’t fear that opposition clubs have moved past them or are moving past them, why not? Do they think they are finishing lower and lower because of extenuating circumstances? Are those extenuating circumstances injuries? Why do injuries keep happening at the club? How are they going to be remedied?

While every club makes mistakes, are Collingwood aware that their last two years makes them look inept?

With many among the Collingwood faithful growing increasingly disgruntled, how will the Collingwood brains trust assuage their fears? Will Collingwood conduct a period of self-evaluation and identify, acknowledge and address their problems? Will they make significant change?

(Photo by Michael Dodge/AFL Media/Getty Images)

Is there any genuine message they could offer us that will assure us things will get better?

Or will it be more of the typical ‘side by side’ rhetoric that is the equivalent of a used car salesman’s pitch and means nothing meaningful to anybody?

Are they aware of the growing movement where many are demanding change at every level of the club? Is Nathan Buckley still safe in his job after nine years at the helm? If so, why? Is Eddie McGuire still safe in his presidency after 21 years in the position? Isn’t it all beginning to feel a bit stale? And complacent? And unadventurous?

While Collingwood’s credo is “only the best”, who is the best at what they do at the club? Can they name a single position where they have the best person in that role? If they don’t have the best person in those roles, why do they claim “only the best”?

Why has dread replaced the excitement?

Where do we go from here?

Can you believe this is only two years’ worth of questions?

When do the clouds clear?

The Crowd Says:

2020-11-10T12:13:37+00:00

Chris

Guest


Slane...This reminds me of a famous quote: Après moi, le déluge -Luis XV. Luis and Eddie have one thing in common-ego and big spending at all costs and who gives a damn as to the consequences. Well, the deluge is here! It didn't even wait for his departure. How about moving the deck chairs on the Titanic! Woeful, appalling, disgusting. I want us to reclaim our CLUB! Mick Malthouse, being a wise old silver fox that he is, saw this coming that's why he disassociated himself from these two charlatans.

2020-11-10T12:07:12+00:00

Chris

Guest


get the job done*

2020-11-10T12:06:43+00:00

Chris

Guest


He'll be gone! I never liked him from the moment he started flaunting himself on social media. Great players keep their heads down and get the job down. They allow their actions do all the talking. I'm afraid his time is well and truly up! He came to Collingwood to rip us off and then become a multimedia personality in his post Collingwood playing days. Our Club is bigger than self-centred individuals. No sympathy for him nor the other mercernaries.

2020-11-10T12:02:13+00:00

Chris

Guest


Bretto.... When I was advocating the removal of the terrible twins some of our online mates (here) went viral. Well, these two guys are so full of themselves that they put their own personal interests ahead of the good of the club. These deals were struck in the hope that Buckley would land a flag and exonerate McGuire of years of mismanagement, blundering and uncouth public remarks that actually made Donald Trump look like a kindergarten teacher. It's better to get rid of the mismanagement deals and start from scratch. Treloar, Stephenson, Mihocek and WHE are not likely to land us a premiership nor any of the other 17 clubs in the AFL. Rebuild with key position players, running mids and flankers and find a Didak, Daicos, Leon Davis type. I doubt the wisdom of retaining Pendlebury, too. He is past his best and trying to get another Copeland to match Len Thompson and Nathan Buckley. Hard decisions need to be made otherwise we will end up being a shambolic mess led by a bunch of overpaid jokers. Feathering one's own nest has taken a different meaning at Collingwood FC!

2020-11-08T22:05:28+00:00

Bretto

Roar Rookie


Les - great article. Reinforces the point our club is extremely poorly run, poor decision making, and a game plan that you would swear is decided by the opposition. How do we get a group of people smart and powerful enough to get rid of Eddie and Buckley? Chris - not helping.

2020-11-08T19:41:45+00:00

Slane

Guest


After reading this comment it is now my hope that Treloar refuses a trade, retires and then demands his contract payout in full. Thus sending Collingwood into a salary cap death spiral that lasts the next decade.

2020-11-08T15:30:06+00:00

Chris

Guest


can be found without a diminution*

2020-11-08T15:28:14+00:00

Chris

Guest


The trade period has highlighted an apparent need for an injection of new blood at Collingwood. Treloar and Stephenson can go with my blessings as they won't ever win us a premiership. They can go wherever they wish and this will help us reduce our wages bill. Then, Beames is another traitor who can go as he has used the club twice for his own expediency. I would prefer Tom Phillips in the black and white because he is a consistent contributor and a good clubman who scores goals, too. If there are injury issues then best give him a carte blanche to go to Hawthorn where he might win a flag. Tom Langdon, Nathan Murphy and Will Hoskin Elliott are best advised to go as suitable replacements can be found candidates without a diminution in our onfield performances. Bring in the youth and buy wise from now on. No sympathy for Treloar as indicated previously, he could have won us the 2018 flag by scoring and could have got us into the 2019 flag decider by scoring in the Preliminary Final. Not enough guts and detertmination for a highly paid player. He should lift the side when needed. He has failed to do that. He simply goes with the flow...Player profiles and associated criteria have changed at Collingwood. Size muscle durability and skill are required form the taxing nature OF AFL...

2020-11-08T02:24:08+00:00

jvange

Guest


Spot on all your questions perfect you forgot Mayne deal

2020-11-07T10:34:34+00:00

Kane

Roar Rookie


They didn’t over achieve, they played a brand of footy that stands up in finals which is attacking. Only Nathan knows why they have gone back to a Ross Lyon defensive style since which obviously doesn’t stand up in finals. They sort of went back to the attacking style against West Coast in the first final but then looked lost against the Cats the next week. Defensive footy doesn’t win flags, history proves only a very small percentage of defensive types of football wins flags.

2020-11-07T10:25:45+00:00

Kane

Roar Rookie


Pete, some days over the last 20 years with how Carlton have performed I wished I was where Joffa is. I'm not sure I'd want to be there with him tho. Haha

2020-11-07T04:11:12+00:00

Peter the Scribe

Roar Guru


Ha! That was good timing too then Kane. I might do the same and avoid our slide and the Blues surge!

2020-11-07T04:10:09+00:00

Peter the Scribe

Roar Guru


I have WC best list on paper. Underachieved this year.

2020-11-06T22:48:41+00:00

Peter the Scribe

Roar Guru


Some salient points Kevo. I know we don’t yet know the full story on Treloar but if the worst is true then why on earth hasn’t Ned Guy been removed as List Manager? The club supposedly bleating about his hefty contract seem to forget that the club signed that contract. Ned Guy squeezed out much loved James Aish to bring Beams in. He was then beaten up by Grundys manager as he panicked about losing him to Adelaide. This has ripped the heart out of a lot of Pies fans and this may well be reflected in membership numbers next year. In a year where Covid has tested the best fans, the Pies have managed to ostracise them rather than embrace them.

2020-11-06T22:41:25+00:00

Peter the Scribe

Roar Guru


Hurt my head too Kane. Non stop questions tend to be like someone screaming at you. No disrespect to the questions which are legitimate.

2020-11-06T22:00:25+00:00

Pumping Dougie

Roar Guru


They should make a stand that demands management don't sign such stupid, overpriced, over-term contracts.

2020-11-06T21:57:06+00:00

Rhymingoz


No. Unfortunately the difference between our best and worst is Grand Canyon esque

2020-11-06T21:54:24+00:00

Rhymingoz


Confirms my thoughts. MediocrityWood

2020-11-06T21:51:46+00:00

Rhymingoz


Brilliant piece. Side by Side in word only and when it suits the Narrative. Club 5 member here. Seen the best and the worst since 71. How a Club that has been as big as it has and been so bloody unsuccessful is staggering. Hawthorn, Geelong and Richmond have a review. They win 4,3 and 3. We go close ( as always) and then fall off the perch. Time for a change. Treloar is overrated in my opinion but YOU signed him. YOUgave him the years at big $$. YOU signed Mayne and treated him like a dog year 1. Just 2 examples of Why would anyone want to come to us? As for Ned Guy recent interview.. well transparency and honesty aint his strong suit. Strap in supporters as we are in the wilderness for another 5 years at least

2020-11-06T09:22:18+00:00

Kevo

Roar Rookie


Good article with legitimate questions. Eddie promoted himself as a John Elliot type protege 20 odd years ago. Early in his presidency I remember thinking Eddie's use by date will probably be 20 years just like Big Jack, and that like Big Jack he'd want the job for ever and maybe destroy the joint by overstaying. I remember him saying he wanted everyone to hate Collingwood because that'd be a sign of success just like the so called good old days. I thought then it was stupid and still do. I'm the same age as Eddie, I like him and he's done a lot of good for Collingwood. Pies will always be my team but right now I do hate Collingwood, or at least what they're doing. I hope the players revolt or else their culture is shot. No matter how many grand finals they make they won't win a premiership. Unlikely they'll making grand finals though. Not a huge Trealoar fan but he's got a lot of upside. Regardless of his ability, it's deplorable how they have treated him; particularly on the back of him adjusting his contract for Collingwood to recruit two players who were huge failures (due to injury, age, mental health issues) in Wells and Beams. In both cases absolutely poor due diligence and ridiculous contracts. At that age and condition should only be a performance based year by year contract. Wells may have not rocked up to his first preseason completely overweight and out of nick, and sitting in the stands for most games including the 2018 grand final. Grundy contract just ridiculous. He's been a very solid contributor at Collingwood but completely towelled up by good average ruckmen in the big finals. He's not a natural ruckman, he's a natural huge athlete. Collingwood have never provided him a decent genuine ruck coach. I love big Ant but he's not a ruckman's but hole. How they haven't employed a Dean Cox type ruck coach is a great travesty. Then Grundy may have been a genuine gun. Cox needed this too even more so for obvious reasons. Throwing young Stephenson under the bus with Treloar, just like they wanted to with later to become club heart and soul of the team Chris Maine. Where is the mentoring, player welfare, long term vision. Even Tom Phillips, I felt fair call, he's a fringe player, huge tank, team player but misses way too many dead set easy goals, so maybe win win if he finds a new club. But now in this cultural climate I just feel bring in a new coach and president ala Matthews and McCalistar. A new coach could get the best out of all these players, the whole team. Fixing up their botched up salary cap is another challenge though. Mick Malthouse was mercilessly manipulated out of his spot at the peak of his powers. I know Mick made his own choices (poor ones) too but the pressure was immense, and I think he eventually lost his marbles for a couple of years, which one plus was that Carlton copped the end result of that. Bucks had his good year in 2018 as he dug deep and reinvented himself. He found some humility and player love which looks like is now being shot to pieces.

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