Jones excludes four big names from England squad

Eddie has said specifically he won’t cap him simply to exclude him from another country. When/if he’s ready, he’ll be in. He’s got some serious competition in England though.

George has been recalled because of an injury to LCD. I think if the RWC was tomorrow all those excluded players would be in the starting 23. Eddie is looking to 2023. If he gets a positive reaction from them, all the better. If not, he’s developing options. None are too old for 2023, but there is a sense that they’ve been coasting a bit and Saracens travails haven’t helped.

Yes, the initial training squad of 45 often, for various reasons, doesn’t include players that later show up in the official squad. England have to officially declare to the clubs which players they need with the official squad. This time the omissions seem real.

Think that's harsh on Mako Bob. That was a collective team failure. If there was a biggest single mistake (and there never is) it was more likely Eddie's prep for the final. Mako probably should have been used more on the Lions tour and I doubt his scrummaging is significantly inferior to Joe's to counter the other things he offers on the park over Marler. But Joe is definitely an Eddie favourite and that matters a lot. Agree on Billy. He's said himself that after his successive broken arms he's changed how he approaches contact. It negates much of his game. He's become a much poorer version of his cousin Faletau. Time to move on.

Genge is relishing his Leicester captaincy and growing as a player. He's an Eddie favourite, as is Marler, but Genge is the future at loosehead while Eddie's in charge. With Mako in the mix England are well served here currently, so long as Mako retains some fire for the game and Joe doesn't go all existential on us again.

LCD ruled out of autumn and more than likely the 6N as well, so George's exile was short-lived!

George is a better all-rounder than LCD but less abrasive, Makos scrum deficiency was attributed as the biggest single mistake in the RWC final, Marler is a much stronger scrummager, Genge offers more in the loose and is blossoming as captain of Leicester. Billy has gone missing for 2 RWCs and his approach to personal fitness is shocking and he's just used up his credit. George can feel aggrieved, the brothers can't

Ellis genge will come off bench been playing brilliant

I think you may be disappointed again and get baby rhino (Genge) against Tongan Thor Tupou. I don't know what the odds are but it would be a good bet for Genge as Vice Captain. BBC rugby union weekly pod Eddie talked about the need for diversity in the leadership group & Genge ticks all the leadership boxes. Will be interesting to see if Tupou starts or comes off the bench. I'm interested to see how he goes against NH teams. Some games Tupou just seems to be dealt with whereas others he will win multiple penalties.

Thanks mate. It’s a bit of a shame as I was looking forward to seeing Tupou scrum against Mako :silly: . Marler is a different - and much tougher - kettle of fish there.

Don’t know, Peter. I’m just going by they have been such integral players in Eddie’s squad and the fact that Gatland rated them highly enough to take them on the Lions. Mako is the one I can see easily starting of Marler goes down with an injury or something.

Luke Cowan Dickie has overtaken George as best hooker. Others hookers in squad are Blamire & Dolly. Loose head Ellis Genge potential england vice captain & Joe marler edge out Mako. Davison covers both side of scrum as does Marler. I think Eddie knows enough about vunipolas & George and is looking at the talent below in terms of squad depth. Part of it as well is both George & Mako toured with the lions so they may be happy to have a bit of a breather.

Has EJ 's ever named a squad and brought then played someone not in the named squad? Obviously exclude an injury and a player brought into the squad for that injured player.

And who will ever forget that match against Ireland. I thought it was over. Done. Dusted. And then Lynagh decides to go for the try—and then he scores it. Walking and talking. Just bloody incredible. His son had a very good game against Bristol the other day. AU should talk with him during the tour. By playing in England, he front ends his coin and then can just play rugby in AU for the love of it.

Yes, Jones will have to get the balance right and not kneecap smith like cheika putting foley at 12 outside quade. Maybe you could run smith, farrell and tuilagi at 13 similar to ford, farrell and tuilagi... I dunno and maybe Jones doesn't either but hopefully he doesn't die wondering and actually gives smith a run. Maybe they will start him against Tonga to see how he goes.

good points Focus on defence v attack is valid. However Smith off the bench is diluted a fair bit then when he comes on Tuilagi will come off and Farrell moves to 12. I don't think Smith and Farrell make a good combo. So Englands defence remains strong but their attack won't be optimised.

Farrell is essentially considered a defense coach in the team and runs their defense in games so it doesn’t surprise me he has been retained. He may not be the individual star smith is, but he may well help the rest of the team play better as a whole through leadership and game management. Would you rather young quade or old quade? I think Smith off the bench is a perfectly good option.

I’m not sure that he’s hedging his bets as such. This is mostly a media thing. Louis is not unique in today’s world in having pulls to more than one country, in fact he could represent three. What I would hate to see from either England or Australia is to cap him simply to stop him playing for the other. He’s a talent but I would suggest that he’s not quite ready for international rugby…although Italy would no doubt bust a nut to get him playing for them right now.

You’d think so, Brett, but a lot of English still seemed to expect them to start? I guess it is the vagaries of Eddie Jones. It wouldn’t shock me if one or more of them ends up starting against us in the end… I would be interested in hearing some English fans elucidate the reason why the Mako and Jamie George were omitted? I gather Smith has overtaken Ford and that Billy is perhaps not the player he once was.

Michael Lynagh was an out and out champion - i watched every test he ever played in, including that famous world cup match against Ireland. The hype around Junior is actually getting annoying - it's as if he gives England number one priority and then if he doesn't get picked then we pick up the crumbs and give him a go. Thant's BS - he either comes out and states unequivocally that his dream is to wear the same guernsey as his old man so famously did - or he choses England and we never talk about him as a Wallaby again - simple - we shouldn't want people that hedge their bets playing for the Wallabies - i don't care who he father was. Quite simple really.