‘We're contending for finals’: Suns set Dew September task

Your claim that the clubs were give the same from start up is misinformed. GWS had the two mini-drafts, which they traded for a raft of first and second round picks in exchange for 4 17 yos, nine of whom are still at their original club. The Suns paid dearly for those two picks, which was a gamble, but it was a gift to GWS. The Giants had more list spots and extra salary cap in their first 5 years which allowed them to retain developing players and veterans, whereas, the Suns had their list cut to 45 and $3 million less salary cap. GWS was given state of the art facilities from the get go, where the Suns were given a facilities upgrade in 2018 and had to train out of unairconditioned tin sheds. There was no parity and even the recent picks have only narrowed that gap. Just take a look at the Giants recruitment zone where some of the game’s greatest player have come from, while the Suns have a zone that is enormous and sparsely populated with Aussie Rules the 4th footy code. Even the claim that GWS were better managed is hard to back up because both clubs are owned by the AFL, who was responsible for their setup. They left the Suns to self determine while actively installing the best people with plenty more soft cap expenditure at the Giants. These are facts, not opinions.

I’m supportive of the existence of the Suns, hope they have success and I like Stuart Dew. But I’m puzzled by the claim the Giants have had far more AFL support than the Suns (and I’m not a Giant’s supporter). Both teams had exactly the same draft concessions to start, with GC getting first crack. Both had Rugby League players imported as marketing ploys. Hunt at GC was more successful than Folau at GWS. GWS got about $5m more in cash support before 2016 but although the figures are rarely made public, GC appears to have received the bigger cash input in recent years. Gold Coast has also had HQ input with AFL football manager Mark Evans being hand picked and parachuted into the Suns to right the ship as CEO. The club also received special draft concessions last year, concessions GWS have not needed nor been given. The truth is that by luck or good management GWS seems to have built an inner culture that keeps players better than GC, has chosen its list and coaching hierarchy more wisely and has had more success.

Five or six dropping is a lot! Without checking I can’t think of a precedent. But expect a few to fall away. This year it was four, though the COVID factor including shortened games in 2020 and rule changes in 2021 made for more variables than between most seasons. Based on history my guess would be three changes, but picking which is a mug’s game. The Pies and Saints were maybe foreseeable this season, though some punters had St Kilda on a bullet into the top four. Richmond and West Coast dropping would have been regarded as eccentric or jaundiced predictions this time last year. It’s a fair point that the Suns will have a lot of competitors for a climb - including Carlton, Fremantle, St Kilda. A resurrection of the Tigers and Eagles is also entirely possible given the playing list of each.

Pre-emptive is the theme. I pointed this out to Thom in an article about a Tassie team when he got in early and started attacking some Vic clubs and suggesting they be relocated, in particular North Melbourne. This was before anyone mentioned the same idea about the Suns. He was equally dismissive when I pointed this out. Likewise when there is a hint that someone may criticise the Suns' performance he goes on the attack against Carlton, as if they are somehow less successful in recent times than Gold Coast.

Tassie tea towels

Man, if Port had of kicked 13 more goals against the dogs!

She would be whomever he chose to be, in a non binary sense

Outrageous they delisted Jacob Townsend.

Show me where I have said the Blues are finals bound or that we should move the Suns to Tassie? And given “benighted” means “in a state of pitiful or contemptible intellectual or moral ignorance” or “overtaken by darkness”I am pretty confident I didn’t refer to the Blues as benighted or any semblance of it. And true or not if you had a strong argument you wouldn’t be worried about stating it, you would simply rely on the strength of your case. And I am happy to concede when a valid argument has been made against my point, but the onus is on you to do so. It is telling you responded to my post about the personal attack but ignored the post about the actual topic.

It isn't a personal attack when I simply state the truth. You fail to concede anything unless it suits your narrative of Carlton = under rated, benighted, finals bound VS Suns = shambles, 16th, move them to Tassie. You should run for the Liberal Party. Your ability to prevaricate, obfuscate and shift the premise is peerless on the Roar.

Call it going off half c0c ked.

"To be fair, both sides kicked poorly." 19 Scoring shots to 25. 45 inside 50's to 56. "The shoe was on the other fort later in the season." Next time the Blues and Suns play Carlton's team could possibly have Cerra, Hewett, Williams, Young, Docherty, Marchbank, Kemp, Durdin and McGovern all in it who didn't play last time around plus a fully fit McKay and Charlie Curnow and I am sure the Suns have a similar list of changes in personnel. Re-writing results is pointless and assuming close losses will be turned into wins in the future is naive.

Your personal attacks demonstrate the strength of your argument.

Call it pre- emptive then. There have been plenty of posts saying that Evans was signing Dew’s exit papers early.

To be fair, both sides kicked poorly. The Suns had no recognized ruckman and got beaten accordingly. The shoe was on the other fort later in the season.

Personally, I don’t think any clubs can afford any if Luko, Ranks or Kingy. What could they offer? Sure, some might come offering the world, but at what cost? The Suns moved out two big contracts n Wright and Brodie for nix to make room for massive extensions of these generational players. Much as I love him, maybe Rankine goes to Adelaide, but he’ll cost a fortune. King and Lukosius just need to keep on form to propel the Suns into contention, so I can’t see the Leaving a good thing. Craig Cameron is an astute List guy and he is assuring the club success. There are players who on a top team might have been given a shot in a finals year by now, but due to the Suns being a lowly side with such a young profile they will have to bide their time. Luck willing, the VFL can provide suitable development for up and coming players for Dew to be able to select in form players who are running the same game plan, which he’s never been able to do.

The whole point of the concessions was to build currency. Previously, the only currency the club had was to finish low and to trade out players, hence the ongoing cycle. Now, if a player needs to leave and they are best 22, they’ll be traded for a fair price and there will be a player to replace them from the young list plus a new high draft pick. It isn’t ideal, just ask Fremantle supporters who watch their best players get traded while having to top up each year in a similar fashion. The Academy is working well enough that now surplus players will be drafted elsewhere, creating a market to attract players back in future, which is how the Suns beat Brisbane to Mabior Chol, who came through the Lions Academy but wasn’t a position of need for them as much as the Suns. Even if the Suns start trading out fringe players, they will continue to pay forward draft capital to match Academy picks, which is how GWS built an enduring list. The next move for the Suns is to bring in some mid career A graders from under performing clubs, but to be attractive they’ll need to be “contending for finals”.

Mat, I’ve watched both the Bears and the Suns go from starting up on the GC. Maybe you are the same? Hard as it was for the Bears, they at least got their start against expansion clubs that were at times easy beats like Sydney and Freo. The Suns have come in as the 17th team and weren’t given remotely as much as GWS. That’s a fact. Yet now when they are on the precipice of a bright future, pundits who know next to nothing about the club are still death riding them. That won’t change even when the current team begins to challenge. If it doesn’t happen in 2020, the coach has to go, but the cynics see this announcement as a pessimistic concession that they have a dud coach who they have no choice but to keep. In a way, it is true. The Suns are running on the sniff of an oily rag compared to the powerhouses, yet they are expected to be competitive because of concessions given 2 years ago. Even those concessions are begrudged, so the pro and social media find it preferable to opine about the Suns being a shambles and basket case rather than see the stark failures of the AFL to support the club from the get go. SOS admitted that he hates the Suns on Trade Radio. This kind of jealousy and bullying is rife and even success won’t change a thing. Eddie McGuire announced upon becoming Collingwood President that he wanted to make people hate the Pies again. Maybe we need a little more of that.

Carlton kick 16.9 instead of 9.16 and it could have been an 8 goal win.

Stuart Dew has more to lose than any other AFL coach right now. 4 lean seasons with incremental growth and a mandate to go for broke in a fifth season. If he walked away now he would never coach again, so he’d have to be the most motivated career coach in the AFL to argue for another year. Remember, they extended him after he went 7 and 38 and was on a 19 game losing streak. He’s since gone 12.5 and 24.5, which is not great but it’s a vast improvement. Richmond stuck fat with Dimma and Melbourne put faith in Goody. It’s a clever way of planning forward. The Suns have put some good coaches around Stu and if he fails they will bring continuity to the 5 year plan. Dew either becomes Brendon Bolton and has a career of assistant coaching after this or he put a career year down and earns a third contract. Mark Evans is a smart operator and will create a legacy that puts the Suns into a proper position to challenge for the first time since 2014. That’s something even Gil McLachlan couldn’t manage.