Why shouldn’t we be blaming Maguire for this Tigers mess?

By Hairy / Roar Rookie

Michael Maguire is a noted hard task master. Pushes his players as far as they think they can, then a bit more.

It certainly worked at Souths – led them to that famous premiership.

The players must learn a lot about themselves and their teammates. The good and the bad. It puts a lot of pressure on the players and the criticism often plays out publicly.

It is a markedly different approach to coaches like Wayne Bennett and Des Hasler who stand in front of their squads and takes the hits.

Obviously, there is not one way to coach. Similarly, I feel, a coach needs a few different strings to their bow, a few different gears, and a few tricks up their sleeve to succeed long term across different playing groups.

At Souths, Maguire might not’ve had the oldest team but still had some experienced players, most of which had representative experience, in the likes of Sam Burgess, John Sutton, Lote Tuqiri, Issac Luke, Ben Te’o, Chris McQueen, Nathan Merrit and Greg Inglis. These guys could all drive the standards and demanded respect.

There were also several emerging talents with great work ethic like Adam Reynolds, Luke Keary, Dave Tyrrell, Ben Te’o and Jason Clark.

(Photo by Bradley Kanaris/Getty Images)

Overall, it was a squad I feel you could push to its limits because its leaders and emerging players would help take themselves there.

This Tigers squad, however, is a completely different cat.

If we switched the teams mascots, it would be a more apt representation of each team plays the game, or at least how they tackle.

I suppose the thinking was that most of the players needed a bit more of a stick to help them realise their potential. This may well be true.

However, it seems to me that Maguire’s approach needs a good core group of players who are well respected among the playing group and who can help drive the standards. Through all the publicity the Tigers received in 2020, including the self-commissioned documentary, it was clear that this squad did not have a group of that ilk.

On a side note, can someone explain to me the thinking behind this documentary? I would love to have seen one of the Roosters season this year or Penrith’s, but the Tigers? I digress.

Maguire often gets the excuse of blaming Ivan Cleary and previous administrations for distorting the cap with mediocre players. Of course, this is at least partly true. Since he took over in 2019, though, his fingerprints have been on the roster and, as far as I know, the recruitment decisions were his. Let’s have a look at how that unfolded.

On arrival in 2019, Madge had to contend with the bloated salaries of underperforming players like Russell Packer, Ben Matulino, Josh Reynolds and Moses Mbye. However, the team he inherited actually had a relatively established leadership group consisting of the likes of Benji Marshall, Robie Farah and Chris Lawrence.

These could have been supported by the experience of Robbie Rochow, Chris McQueen, Elijaah Taylor and the emerging players in Alex Twal, Matt Eisenhuth and Ryan Matterson, who all seem like they would fit Maguire’s mould.

The recruitment that year wasn’t extensive due to their salary cap constraints, but they did sign two quality young players in Matterson and Paul Momorovski which would improve the team.

Not looking too bad at this point. Wests finished ninth and it looked like things were on the up, despite having also finished ninth in 2018.

After just one year, though, cracks started to appear. For good measure, COVID-19 arrived in Australia and added even further pressure on the players.

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In 2020, Farah, Rochow and Matulino retired, relieving some salary cap space but putting a real dent in their leadership group.

One of their best in 2019, Matterson asked for an upgrade after far exceeding his modest contract. The Tigers refused, not wanting to pay overs, so the player held them to ransom – an act I don’t agree with, but I think one that probably shouldn’t have happened in the first place. Between him and Twal, they could have been the cornerstone of the Tigers’ pack.

The likeable Corey Thompson was shown the door, which didn’t go over well with some. Another player with great work ethic and who never seems to give up. Mahe Fonua was also looking promising before leaving overseas.

At this point, based on the premise that the Souths team was built on, I would have thought the play would be to recruit a few more hard-nosed experienced middles or experienced backs to drive the standards at the club and replace the leadership leaving the club.

Farah and Rochow were gone, and Marshall, Taylor, Lawrence and McQueen were getting to the end.

(Photo by Mark Nolan/Getty Images)

Some of the players available which may have fit that mould were Reagan Campbell-Gillard, Kurt Capewell, Zane Tetevano, Tyrell Fuimaono, Manu Ma’u, Tepai Moeroa, Will Chambers, Michael Gordon, Joe Stimson, Shaun Fensom, Andrew McCullough, Bryson Goodwin or Dean Britt. Not all great signings but could have done a job.

Instead, they sign the Leilua brothers on big money, Zane Musgrove and Adam Doueihi. Now, Doueihi and Luciano Leilua were great signings, but why hold out on Matterson then go and sign Joey Leilua on reportedly $700,000 per season when his best was a few years behind him? Harry Grant was a shining light but was only young.

More to the point, how do any of these players instil the defensive resolve and work ethic it seems Maguire is demanding? Even Luciano, as talented as he is and I wish the Dragons did not let him go, was not known as a hard worker on or off the field and his brother Joey had openly admitted to eating a burger a day during the NRL season.

Grant, Doueihi and Marshall were shining lights, but things started to play out too much in the media. Madge really put the blowtorch on the players and began the shock-and-awe campaign of dropping experienced players.
The Tigers regressed and finished 11th, but we can chalk that up to the salary cap and COVID, right? Could have been much worse if not for Grant and Marshall winding back the clock.

For the 2021 season, Marshall was let go, the Chrises retired and Matt Eisenhuth went back to Penrith. A leadership vacuum was in full force with perhaps only Alex Twal pushing through. Another year, another messy split with Josh Aloiai doing a Matterson.

Harry Grant was a shining light, but he had to return to Melbourne.

The signing of James Tamou was finally a step in the right direction ,adding experience from a good system in Penrith and a big body up front. Probably not know for his defensive game, though.

Tamou during his Penrith days (Photo by Mark Evans/Getty Images)

Then they signed James Roberts and Joe Ofahengaue, probably not the type of player they needed at the time, with neither noted for their defence, work ethic or leadership. One step forward, two steps back, it would seem. The younger middles were not coming through at perhaps the rate expected of them.

Stefano Utoikamanu was a good young signing with upside. Dane Laurie, likewise, but in hindsight they should have just waited a year rather than offloading the promising Momorovski.

The Tigers regressed further to 13th in 2021. The teams finishing seventh and eighth weren’t particularly good, either.

So, how much of this regression can we really attribute to previous administrations? The core group of players Maguire inherited had the makings of something that could be built upon, along with the young talent coming through.

In two short years, though, this group is almost gone with really only consists now of Twal and Tamou.

At least in 2022, the Tigers no longer have the bloated salaries of Packer and Joey Leilua and only have half of Mbye’s to pay.

In 2022, their salary cap issues are mostly resolved, but again, the recruitment is not improving the defensive resolve or work ethic of the team. Tyrone Peachey, while talented, is not noted for his defence and neither are Jackson Hastings or Oliver Gildart.

There are still fires to put out as well, with Luke Brooks essentially demanding to leave and it’s looking likely Luciano Leilua may be let go at season’s end with his contract demands not being met. His brother fired shots on the way out (some salt needed there, though) and even David Nofoaluma was having shots at his teammates on social media through the year.

At least they had a crack at Dale Finucane, but he wisely chose another destination. Hopefully, they had a crack at signing Cameron McInnes when he was on the market. Ryan James was available as well, as were Dunamis Lui, Kurt Capewell, Jayden Su’a, Isaac Liu and Will Hopoate. I am sure there are a few players looking elsewhere as well for some opportunity.

The summation of Maguire’s recruitment from the outside is he has let go a lot of the consistent middles, signed and re-signed young players with a lot of attacking upside and yet has expected the team to play like they are Finucane, Josh Jackson and McInnes. When they don’t, he torches them in the presser.

There is a good young group of players, particularly in the forwards, but who is there to teach them the day-to-day of an NRL player? Who is there to drive the standards?

Should the Tigers really be giving Madge another year at the helm? What will change? Will the players finally buy what he is selling?

Will Maguire stop trying to turn these bunnies into tigers? Perhaps fire and brimstone is not the way to get the best out of these players and a different approach is needed.

If Maguire is not able to get the best out of these players and is unwilling to change his style, I am afraid the only solution is to bring in someone who can.

One thing is for certain: the pressure on both players and coach in 2022 will be huge.

The Crowd Says:

2021-11-18T12:32:20+00:00

Gus O

Roar Rookie


That revolving door of sacked coaches was after punting Sheens. They sacked Sheens, Potter and Taylor, then couldn’t keep Cleary. Why would any self respecting coach want the job at a club that hasn’t got the backbone to support their coach. Whether or not Madge was the right man for the job, they just had to back him because the board had become the joke that couldn’t keep a coach. Dumping Sheens all those years ago with years left on his contract was a mistake. They just cannot dump yet another coach without well deserved ridicule and further player trouble.

2021-11-09T02:21:39+00:00

Glory Bound

Roar Rookie


No, 90% of that crowd were Rabbitohs fans. Look at the Roosters membership numbers for 2021, Rabbitohs 30,794 members, Roosters 17,274. Last year Souths had 29,670 members and the Roosters had 15,219. They could sell enough tickets for a chook raffle that alone an NRL game Nat. :laughing:

2021-11-09T01:37:34+00:00

Nat

Roar Guru


You like that one? :laughing: I had another one about Roosters getting bigger crowds but, you know, there is a line... :stoked:

2021-11-09T00:59:23+00:00

Glory Bound

Roar Rookie


"When you said “When Souths were readmitted to the NRL in 2002 Rabbitohs fans flocked to games in droves” I thought you meant for a season. You meant for the first week." Sometimes it's best to avoid specifics. It only confuses the emotional intent of what I am trying to say. You made me laugh though Nat. :laughing: :thumbup:

2021-11-08T21:34:18+00:00

Nat

Roar Guru


My mistake. When you said "When Souths were readmitted to the NRL in 2002 Rabbitohs fans flocked to games in droves" I thought you meant for a season. You meant for the first week. :laughing: Pumped 40 - 6 by the Roosters! What a welcome back! :laughing: :laughing: FYI, your 2nd home game got 15k - not 22k. A lot of those would have been Manly fans, you know how they like to travel. :laughing:

2021-11-08T10:01:48+00:00

Redcap

Roar Guru


Maybe so, Greg. There's plenty we didn't and don't see, of course. It showed me enough to surmise that Maguire's probably not the coach for a young, developing team that lacks confidence and organisation. Hard to see what those players would get out of those rants. I find it hard to imagine he's much different off camera - he might even be worse. Why would he showcase the worst of himself to the public?

2021-11-08T09:33:02+00:00

BillV

Guest


Makes no difference who your coach is. To be successful, year after year it shows you need quality across the park. Players good enough to play Origin, or Test level footy. Not through the coaches efforts. Half time sprays don’t work on inferior cattle. Tigers only have Tamou and Roberts although I would rate neither capable of playing at that level these days. They will likely be cemented to the bottom for a while yet. For how long as they haven’t been successful, (about 16 years), is how long they haven’t had the kind of team required.

2021-11-08T09:32:53+00:00

Glory Bound

Roar Rookie


Rabbitohs first game back in the NRL in 2002 (a home game), attendance: 35,316. Their next home game attendance: 22,850... And they finished 3rd last on the ladder that year. I think you get the picture Nat. :laughing:

2021-11-08T09:16:53+00:00

Greg

Roar Pro


MaGuire may be one dimensional but i think the doco didnt actually show that. I don't think the doco showed enough of anything that you could base an informed opinion on.

2021-11-08T08:44:24+00:00

Glory Bound

Roar Rookie


The Redcliffe "no-name" Dolphins have their first signing. And just who is the lucky player, the big draw card, to get the Dolphins first jersey and become "0001"? Harrison Graham! At least the Dolphins signings thus far are in keeping with their "no-name" branding. New NRL club Dolphins make historic first player signing Graham also has a trial contract with the Dolphins' state rivals Brisbane Broncos, which means he could also be given a professional deal by Kevin Walters prior to the 2022 season. Graham, who can also play lock, was a Queensland under-18 representative, playing in a team that included the likes of Warriors full-back Reece Walsh and Melbourne Storm signing Xavier Coates The Lismore-born talent's impressive form for Queensland Cup side Wynnum-Manly put him on the radar of NRL clubs. https://www.msn.com/en-au/sport/news/new-nrl-club-dolphins-make-historic-first-player-signing/ar-AAQrh5c?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531 It's starting to look like the Dolphins will vying with the Tigers as the team least likely to sign players to their club.

2021-11-08T06:07:08+00:00

Nat

Roar Guru


Mate, I think the only people who can explain those decisions don't work there anymore.

AUTHOR

2021-11-08T05:32:33+00:00

Hairy

Roar Rookie


Maybe Millward moon-lights at the tigers? Would explain a lot. If that is true, I would have to downsize my criticism slightly.

AUTHOR

2021-11-08T05:25:57+00:00

Hairy

Roar Rookie


I would suggest the Dragons had a few more excuses last year, but you are right the Dragons certainly have some issues to fix. The difference I see is there is some hope of some turnaround for the Dragons next year with recruits and promoting young talent, but I don't see that for the Tigers. Maguire seems to come back to the existing players just being better and wanting it more, the players he assembled.

2021-11-08T05:22:30+00:00

Nat

Roar Guru


Have I missed your truth? Where's the link? Mine took 10 mins, you've had 3hrs. Were yours 'facts" another "punchline". :laughing: :laughing:

AUTHOR

2021-11-08T05:20:02+00:00

Hairy

Roar Rookie


I agree the players need to be held accountable and some may well not be pulling their weight. Though, my point still remains why go and assemble a roster full of players who were known to not be hard working and yet let a number who were leave?

2021-11-08T04:32:04+00:00

Glory Bound

Roar Rookie


If only the Broncos were as relentless over 80 minutes every week Nat. Not only would they make the finals for a change they would also probably break the Dragons 11 straight premierships record! :laughing:

2021-11-08T03:45:57+00:00

Nat

Roar Guru


Feel free to post your truth or are you going to Trump it and just deflect and discredit the source? In 05 Souths had 5 games with 8K or less. If anything lucky they took the final game to C/Coast to prop them up a bit. Feel free to do the work and prove me wrong. https://www.nrl.com/draw/?competition=111&season=2005&team=500005

2021-11-08T03:17:32+00:00

Glory Bound

Roar Rookie


Just like Nat to get his NRL "facts" from an AFL propaganda website! :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

2021-11-08T03:13:23+00:00

Albo

Roar Rookie


Yep ! Cleary had them on the verge of the finals in his last year there in 2018 with 12 wins & 12 losses to finish 9th. Madge has since gone 11/13, 7/13 & 8/16 . They have gone backwards.

2021-11-08T02:27:35+00:00

Rossi

Roar Rookie


Sounds like Saul Goodman is their chairman?

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