Barcelona's visit is the last resort for an A-League that has run out of ideas

You're soaking in it...... :silly: btw - I blame work from home......days when instead of nattering to someone in the tearoom.......

Mike, you've really got to get a hobby buddy :laughing:

more to do with protecting open public space. I gather those who want an "off the leash' area for their dogs managed to get their way. btw - the initial announcement of the project was for an $18 mill price tag and that was inclusive of $10 mill from state govt and a 21 year lease from council. Not sure whether #Brainstrust regards this and other state govt funding announcements back in 2018 as welfare or not?

Actually many players and coaches like England best because of the passion and dedication of English fans through the leagues. Shota Arveladze, Hull City manager, recently said it.

You dost protest too much. The optics here suggest that your dislike of barbs aka the honest reality, is the only weapon in your articulation arsenal. Son, you dont obviously watch Who Wants to be a Millionaire. On a number of occasions, that clown McGuire, has belittled and openly insulted contestants when they state they're football fans. What is the definition of drawing a long bow. Struth, how can you even try to link the words partnership and politely in the same sentence as NRL. They underworld ties with that game border on being ludicrous. Wakey wakey old mate.

TV people are totally credible, just look at Rupert Murdoch and the phone hacking scandal associated with News of the World. And how about the tv support to the AFL clubs not making stadiums available when we made our WC bid. What about Rebecca Wilson and Alan Jones, nice defamation job they go away with, calling football fans terrorists. And then you can start to look at the likes of Peta Credlin and Andrew Bolt. Yep, TV people, fine upstanding, disconnected, self-important, money hungry members of the community proudly sporting their bias and agenda.

hey dont forget that Victory had a site lined up to build their training centre, and mysteriously it go re-zoned overnight. Gee that would have nothing to do with the AFL would it?

In Perth Subiaco was owned by the WAFC, in Adelaide Football Park owned by the SANFL. Surely you understand that none of this was simple landlord/tenant arrangements. This is all about sustainable business models were club and venue make a profit. Deal with it. Problems you may have in Sydney - - take up with the FFA and the SCG Trust. Remember in 2019 SFC were hesitating on committing to be a long term tenant at the rebuilt SFS; and............speaking of which......... Sydney commit to stadium. It's the difference between a per game usage/rental and a long term contractual/lease arrangement. The notion of the 'rent' is effectively the point after which the club can draw revenue. The 'rent' is effectively the breakeven point.

#Brainstrust : "The best rorter of stadiums was the AFL itself, it payed for Docklands by making the clubs whom it wanted to merge in the future, pay the mortgage for the AFL to own docklands." Ah not quite - - remember - - the Docklands venue was privately built and owned and the AFL had the tricky decision of weighing up the old VFL Park at Waverley (getting run down by then and still Vic Govts year after year had failed to honour the promise of a Public transport connection let alone planning approval for the owner - - the VFL-AFL to increase the size of the venue. Remember - the VFL built it and once they announced the plan to move the VFL Grand Final there it was the Vic Govt that jumped in to prevent planning approval to build up the capacity to 100K plus and effectively force the VFL to be a prisoner of the MCG/MCC). The AFL hadn't hit big broadcast pay days yet - during the '90s. The National Competition was still finding its feet and Friday night for example was still a growing thing dominated by the founding club - North Melbourne. My annoyance with the AFL is that my club - North Melbourne - was a co-tenant at the MCG however got effectively fixtured into Docklands by the AFL and we were forced to negotiate a late deal with no bargaining power. THAT was the Ross Oakley/Wayne Jackson era. I won't defend the AFL on everything. We got squeezed out and the other clubs got in on Friday nights (tv games). The payment on Docklands was based around a similar model to the MCG of minimum number of games and patronage. That's largely why the notion of a 3rd Melbourne venue (such as the old Princes Park - Carlton ground) fell right away. The AFL finally - under Andrew Demetriou - came in to bat more for the tenant clubs and negotiate improved deals. The AFL had bought the right to assume ownership after 25 years - - that gave the owners 25 years to extort. However - we always knew there might be a turning point at which the AFL would buy it out early. re the WC bid. Remember a couple of points here. The FIFA bid rules were that only one bid city could have more than 1 venue. Pretty sure that was always going to be Sydney. So......the AFL offered up the MCG and that should've been fine. IF a 2nd Melbourne venue was required - - then perfect chance for soccer legacy would be the upgrade of AAMI Park to minimum 50,000 capacity - - surely?? Criminal act?? What drivel. On what basis to you make that claim?? Mate - remember - the AFL was locked into a long term lease/business arrangement until 2025 at Docklands stadium - - that and of course as has turned out - the AFL now owns it lock/stock/barrel. Only a fool back in 2008/2009 would've assumed the venue would NOT be 100% AFL owned by 2022. And - of course at the MCG - long term contracts/leases until 2032 (inclusive of the AFL annual payments) and in 2009 that was pushed out to 2037 and now to 2057. And as far as the interests of investors goes - - it's highly likely that with FIFA's clearn stadium and ownership of all rights that Docklands would've been worse off in the event of a FIFA WC. Think about it - - maybe 3 or 4 games over a month with a vacant lead in month and remaining vacant until the end of the tournament. Frank had no idea........well......actually he DID because he had Ben Buckley on staff and it's pretty obvious that Frank was hoping to inflict as much damage on the AFL as possible. However - the Vic Govt knows that the once off circus doesn't pay the bills 30, 40, 50 years ahead - - and the Vic Govt (John Brumby) offered up Geelong stadium (Kardinia Park) and finally that shut up Lowy and the bid was presented. It was a sh!t bid and terribly handled by an old guy who was used to dominating people in business.

#Brainstrust You said "The MCC must do a much better job because they dont charge rent" The current AFL contract at the MCG is a minimum number of games (now up to a minimum of 45 H&A) and a minimum average attendance. I'm not sure that you comprehend how it works - - get SFC and Sydney out of your head here - that's small fry....chicken feed. The MCG (and lets go pre covid here). 2018/19 annual report showed 3.6 million attendees for the 'year' and 2.95 million of those were AFL (540K alone for the 6 finals). Cricket..........pffft. Barely worth mentioning. Other events.....a trickle. The business model is based around the AFL. That's why that year there was another renegotiation of the contract and locking in the AFL GF further into the future (until 2057 and ensuring AFL/footy content at the ground). The notion of individual match rent doesn't apply - - and this is where the long term contractual/leasing arrangement takes over. Back in 2002 - the renegotiation at that point (to cater for the rebuild of the Western,Member and Northern-Olympic stands) saw the AFL locked into making an additional $5 million per year (indexed for 32 years) annual payment to the MCC for the redevelopment of the MCG (that was completed in time for the 2006 C'wealth games). Not bad. The Vic Govt only tipped in $77 million. How much does SFC or the FFA contribute to the SFS or SCG?? (heck, how about the NRL.....have they ever chipped in??) There was another renegotiation in 2005 - reconfirming the AFL GF locked in until 2032 (in 2009 that got pushed out to 2037 and that's now 2057). In 2009 the per match deal was adjusted so that AFL clubs would receive a minimum $100,000 per game hosted at the MCG. You see - it's a business arrangement - the AFL brings the content, the value, and the crowds and that allows the MCC to trade the catering and give value to the MCC membership. It's a model that stacks up. Year on year on year. THIS is a major reason why a one off event like a FIFA WC stand alone - if at the cost of an AFL season - could actually be a financial hit (given FIFA's venue control) rather than a boon. You might have seen the MCG and Docklands pursuing the FFA for compensation had that bid won out. In the 2018/19 annual report - that AFL $5 million from 2002 was sitting around $9.5 million.

You don't like being called a typical AFL fan?

So what league in Australia is not a development/bush league? Is AFL and Rugby League and Union a higher standard? Our basketball? Essentially they are all Australians playing it. So in fact we are not good at sport?

MCG was upgraded years ago before the current welfare mentality. The MCC must do a much better job because they dont charge rent, they use the revenue from events and the members area with a minimal state govt input to pay for the stadium. If they wanted to use their monopoly they could charge rent on top of everything else. In fact at the SFS their also revenue sources taken by the stadium and a members area but this has not stopped them charging Sydney FC extremely high rents. The profits were invested in the SCG. The best rorter of stadiums was the AFL itself, it payed for Docklands by making the clubs whom it wanted to merge in the future, pay the mortgage for the AFL to own docklands. The AFL which complains so bitterly about even possible charge turned the screws on the unlucky clubs to be based at Docklands while they poured countless monies to expansion clubs. The AFL didnt own any stadiums when the world cup bid was made, in fact it can be argued the AFL may have commited a criminal act, Docklands have a duty to act in the interests of their investors and it seems the AFL could have improperly influenced them from doing that.

Adelaide and Perth teams used to pay rent at the stadiums which was the local AFL association owned stadiums. The money that was supposed to be the rent was diverted to them. Its not rent if the money doesn;t go to the owner of the stadium. Rent is also not public transport included with the ticket.

Relative to ability and skill the AFL is a very well paid sport. Much tougher to earn money in the A-league.

I think you seem to be unaware of the marquee wages in the A-league. Some players have made money in the A-league, more than they would have been paid elsewhere. The highest paid was Honda Melbourne Victory and the FFA marquee funding he was paid like 3.5 million a year. Those wages were only a bit less than his highest pay packet at AC Milan. Honda then went to play in Brazil Serie A for less than a tenth of that. J-league the wages are not a high as you imagine and in fact young Japanese players have restricted wages. For some reason Iniesta got paid a fortune to play there but the highest paid Japanese players are on about a million a year. They pay more for foreign players than they do to Japanese players, Langerak an Australian goal keeper. is one of the highest paid in the J-league. Each case is individual, majority of foreign players in the EPL would prefer to play elsewhere if they could get the same money because England is a fairly miserable place. China and the Middle East are the places where players could get a lot of money but are considered undesirable locations to play in. A lot of players play a season there and never come back despite the financial rewards. Classifying leagues is nonsense. The TV execs are paying more for the A-league then they do for the Scottish Premier league .

Ha. You equate answers you don't like hearing to a lack of respect. I've given the A-league plenty of respect. The crowds it gets are actually remarkable for a league of it's quality. It's a second/third division equivalent to most European leagues and pulls larger crowds. The A-league is a development league. I can't help if you are offended by that. It's not stated to offend. That's your problem, not mine. The problem is you think that is an insult, when it is reality.

You don't deserve any respect. You resort to barbs when challenged with objective numbers.

A major problem appears to be the lack of understanding of football by the A leagues club's owners. Who on earth dreamed up and was supported in running such short, rushed seasons for both ALW and ALM? Football seasons run for around nine months and as a person involved in the game for over 50 years I expect a similar length in Australia. Preferably in the March to November period when relatively cooler weather caters for a more high tempo, spectator appealing style of football.

Respect Nick respect. Now you are really sounding like your typical AFL fan.