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Munro Mike

Roar Rookie

Joined September 2018

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Oh dear haven’t we learned yet? Don’t use early season white ball domestic form as any sort of guide for test selection!!!

Usman Khawaja's back-to-back tons send a message to Test selectors

#Randy

And because the Brumbies and Raiders are so well established – they don’t need the ‘seeding’ funding that the Giants have. It’s not apples and apples. The Giants as a semi-regular fixture at Manuka helps justify investment in the venue which is also capable of hosting international cricket. That’s important to many in the ACT to retain that capacity.

Overall re GWS and the AFL – for the AFL it was a no brainer to double its presence in Sydney (as it did in SEQ). To have 2 teams in each mainland capital (Perth-Freo, Adelaide, SEQ, Sydney) is massive for a national comp and in the ‘expansion’ states to double the ‘promotional’ capacity and ensure a live game in that market each week (i.e. become a permanent winter presence).

That’s where I look at the NRL and Melb Storm. What is the end game there? Just to be there? Just to tick the box? When NRL fans talk about a 2nd Brisbane side and the possibility of another side ripped from struggling Sydney heartland…..I look and think just relocate the Storm back ‘home’ to QLD (it’s feeder sides are up there). The other one is the Warriors…..why is there even an NZ side in the NRL and A-League??

Anyway – the AFL and the Giants – – it was necessary and right now they are bubbling along quite nicely. I know it annoyed many fans of lower clubs – my North has struggled to attract top talent from the expansion sides but……we’ve at least played a part…..forced up the pay of guys like De Goey, Martin, Kelly, Gaff who were offered more to stay. The market forces at play.

This weekend's grand final justifies the AFL's Giant investment

And the reality was always going to be that they would NOT be able to retain them all – it would create trade opportunities but also salary cap issues.

The irony of the Giants facing up to Richmond with ex Suns Caddy, Prestia and Lynch and having defeated Collingwood with ex Giants Treloar and Adams and Hoskin-Elliott.

That’s indicative of the lay of the land on this. The huge challenge for the expansion sides is to get their player retention correct (knowing they can’t keep everyone). And for the other clubs – to target players that might be extractable.

As sad as it was that my North missed on Josh Kelly – I’m glad to see he and Coniglio commit long term to the Giants – it’s guys like that and also Pavlich at Fremantle – who set the early standards and become the first club ‘legends’. I do look to the Suns and wonder who fills that…..David Swallow is honest, Harbrow one of the few who ‘went home’.

This weekend's grand final justifies the AFL's Giant investment

The Giants certainly better off without him.

Israel Folau set for rugby league comeback

The Eels had nothing to tell…..well….nothing on the scoreboard…..that was a hard watch after the GWS Coll game.

Giant result: GWS into grand final after beating Collingwood in a preliminary final thriller

It’s the irony – it’s a 4 innings game – Test Cricket – you get your runs and wickets when you can.

Wade steps out of the shadow of Smith to make a statement

#jamesb

Really?? Ben Stokes managed a 2nd innings 100 that won a test match.

Many a batter scores a 2nd innings 100 to save a test.

It’s different if he’s come in in the 3rd innings with a day to go and the game meandering to an inevitable draw and he makes a 100 on a track offering nothing to anyone…..oh….that was Smtih at Melb v Eng 2 years ago (but even that ensured a draw after England had knocked over S.Marsh and there was just a faint glimmer).

Heck – some batters are good in the 1st innings and hopeless in the 2nd when the pitches might be playing more tricks.

The reality is he made 2 100s and outside of Smith only Labuschagne looked likely from the rest.

Wade also had 2 valuable 30s where the partnership and context was crucial.

That said; I do feel – a couple of times in the first innings he moderated his batting too much whilst in support of Smith.

Wade steps out of the shadow of Smith to make a statement

#Shellbell

That’s been the issue with Joe Burns.

However – Wade has performed well enough in 4 of the 5 2nd innings in conditions that were troubling to all batters (even Smith as well as he went had to ignore that he would play and miss at many balls.)

Wade has certainly earned a crack at it in home conditions.

And – the old “ain’t too broke, don’t fix it” adage should mean that more focus is on getting the openers right and working out who is #5.

Wade steps out of the shadow of Smith to make a statement

#Fadida

Not so much left – the Port Adelaide Magpies still exist and the Port Power had to wait their chance for the SANFL backed Crows to get formed.

The main issue is more the impact on the 2nd tier (SANFL/WAFL)….no longer is the match of the day in the local league the biggest game in town…it’s the weekly AFL game.

The angst in the VFA is several levels – the old VFA got butchered to become the ‘VFL’ as effectvely the 2nd tier to the Vic based AFL clubs. The irony is the VFA dates back to 1877 and the original VFL was a break away in 1897. So – it’s historical unsavory for that name change to happen and effectively wipe away the VFA continuity (in name). The stand alone clubs such as Port Melbourne, Williamstown, Werribee, Coburg and Frankston have mostly have a period of AFL club alignment but now are all firmly stand alone. No aspiration of promotion to the AFL. These clubs are very much ‘local’ clubs and the AFL clubs have in most cases out grown their suburban roots in the draft era. The biggest concern for the old VFA clubs is some noises about a national AFL ‘reserves’ league. That would be bad news – – because for the 2nd tier clubs it IS very important to be seen as a potential talent pathway to the top level. That players who get cut or miss the draft can play at a Frankston, or North Adelaide or Subiaco and play against AFL listed players and have half a chance of being picked up.

Looking at the A-League/NPL situation – the fact that the ‘local’ clubs feel they can mix it in the FFA and soccer as a game allows that more so than the more attacking/high scoring Aust Football. So – it seems to me rather than the NPL clubs seeing themselves as purely a stop off for aspirational talent – – it seems the clubs themselves and their more dedicated supporters might be more aspirational for the club itself……certainly the old Sth Melb and Melb Knights from what I can see/hear.

Football's 'us versus them' mentality is the next problem to fix

#Jimmy

I guess……it depends whether people feel that the game is at the level of seriously playing ‘tests’ (if that’s the term they are desperate to use). Being generally a 1 off game – – is it perhaps more a soccer style (un) Friendly…….because at this point with amateurs/part timers it’s more often who is able to be available. Are the NRLW contracted players contracted for the mini NRLW comp (it’s pretty well a round robin with 4 teams) plus the ‘rep’ matches.

But – in saying that when the AFL play International Rules matches against the GAA they call them ‘Tests’.

Okay – I’m on the fence on this one. Perhaps in AFL world – full 18 aside internationals should be labeled ‘tests’ (whether in tournament or stand alone). Or do we figure you’ve got to be in some way contracted??

NRLW has learnt from AFLW's disrespect

#Jimmy

Using the phrase ‘Test’ is interesting.

I don’t dismiss the passion – in representing your country. I just find the use of the term ‘Test’ to be interesting. It’s a label….but is it right?

Don’t get me wrong – I’m all for it – the international matches. I love the passion of amateurs representing the country – I’ve often mentioned the 2011 AFL International Cup 11/12th place play off – last place in Div 1. Sweden vs Japan on a suburban oval in Melbourne – and it was one of the best footy contests I saw that year…..didn’t need to be professionals…..it was national pride for players who come to Australia from a long, long way away. Can I call that ‘Test’ footy? Perhaps I can. Granted that was 2 week tournament matches……does a ‘Test’ need to be more of a stand alone game?

I guess I think back to cricket and for example Sri Lanka before gaining official ‘test’ status would often host touring teams for 3 day ‘unofficial tests’…..rather than just a tour game.

NRLW has learnt from AFLW's disrespect

#Justin

…..a taste of your own medicine……

….let us know when you find some to administer!!

NRLW has learnt from AFLW's disrespect

I was just so frustrated for Sidds….he’ll probably never play another test for Australia.

Should’ve gone out easily with a dozen wickets from his 3 tests at low 20s…that would’ve been a nice finish to his career…the stats sometimes do lie.

Who should the Test selectors look at for the summer?

I’d take Pattinson over Starc.

Or even Richardson (J).

Starc’s got a bit of red ball rebuilding to do.

However – we keep making a bit of a mistake of having 3 new ball bowlers. And last summer tended to open with Starc and Hazlewood and ran Cummins as the change bowler.

Cummins has surged to #1. He and Hazlewood feel the better bets as new ball bowlers. Where does Starc fit in? Wait for the tail and bowl some yorkers??

You’d actually almost be better off……with Mitch Marsh as the change bowler and batting at #8.

btw – based on batting techniques from the Ashes series – I’m pushing for Pete Siddle to come in at #5.

Who should the Test selectors look at for the summer?

#Justin

My response held no requirement for you to have read the prior more expansive comment. I seriously don’t want you to read it – – there’s no point as far as you’re concerned. You’re not here to discuss anything.

That’s why I couldn’t give a toss…..you’re not worth the concern. Anyway – coffee break over….work to be done.

NRLW has learnt from AFLW's disrespect

Ta for that CT…..it’s hard to work out sometimes where the right place is to look – when looking from far away. Further below I found the SEQ and subsequently the SEQ juniors. Used that as a basis of comparison to a single suburban Melb league which illustrates the scale gap presently.

The growth trajectory from here on for the NRLW will be interesting indeed.

NRLW has learnt from AFLW's disrespect

Okay – didn’t think that could be right re SEQ and girls RL…..found the SEQ Girls comp.

So, U18 girls, 2 pools of u16 and 3 of u14 girls.

Which still illustrates my point – – all of SEQld is around equatable with a suburban Melb league.

NRLW has learnt from AFLW's disrespect

#Justin

Given I was responding to #Sydneysider; seriously – I couldn’t give a toss whether you read it or not. Won’t make any difference either way anyhow.

NRLW has learnt from AFLW's disrespect

#deucer

“surely they can’t go on forever subsiding the game with free entry”

Exactly right.

More generally (not directed at you #Deucer): And that’s where they are at currently – interesting listening on SEN this morning with Daisy Pearce speaking in reaction to the Caroline Wilson article.

To her (Pearce) there is no crisis and no concept of anyone walking away.

What she stressed is that the first 3 seasons have been single year CBAs. And all the players in the first year or 2 were like brand new draftees – it was all new and they couldn’t look to anyone for leadership (obviously in the AFL and the regular AFLPA there are the veteran players and managers and everyone within the system……the AFLW was brand new for everyone).

What the issue is now is they are working on a 3 year CBA.

So – it’s not a crisis. There is an ‘awakening’ amongst the AFLW players BUT….there’s also the issue that they are off season presently, all are part timers and it’s very hard to get them all together at the one time. It’s just challenging and some individuals might be getting frustrated and……

…..this was reported on the NMFC website on Monday; AFLW: CBA offers pay rises, longer seasons.

Certainly there’s water to go under the bridge…..given it seems that people are agitating for payment outcomes when the funding model isn’t locked away.

Just a level of scale – up in Brisbane for example in the SEQ RL there’s 4 divs of womens RL with 30 teams from Tweed Heads, to Toowoomba, the GC, Ipswich through all of Brisbane. And one possible div of U12 girls…looks like 4 teams with no results but 6 rounds.

In my local metro league in northern subs Melb we’ve got 3 divs of womens with 22 womens teams and then U18s girls and 2 divs of u16 girls, 2 divs of u14 girls and 2 divs of u12 girls. 5 years ago pretty none of that existed. The U12 girls divs had 14 teams across the 2 divs with H&A rounds of 14 matches each plus finals/grand finals etc.

So – – that’s one metro league vs all of SEQ.

Perhaps that gives an idea of the scale and in appropriateness of making comparisons at present between AFLW and NRLW. I seriously don’t think some of the people on here understand just how big AFLW/womens Aust Footy has become.

Consider too that Newcastle (3 League Tag Ladies divs = 18 teams) and Central Coast (1 League Tag ladies div = 9 teams). By contrast the AFL Hunter Region/Central Coast has a 15 team AFL Womens competition playing a 16 round H&A plus finals.

SO even in RL territory – – the womens RL is playing catch up coming from a fair way back – that’s just the way it is.

SO – puh-leeze……don’t come talking apples and apples and throwing the phrase ‘disrespect’ around as it was.

NRLW has learnt from AFLW's disrespect

#Justin

A shame all you’re able to provide is attacking individuals.

What you regard as too verbose are actually thoughtfully constructed comments relating to a pretty important element of the article – – as published.

We had every right to interact with this article with respect to that.

Alas you’re failed to take the opportunity to engage and discuss. That’s your loss and always has been on this site.

Good luck to the NRLW. It’s coming from a fair way back presently. But has probably got better growth potential than an NSL….ahem….A-League Div 2.

NRLW has learnt from AFLW's disrespect

#Sydneysider

Who is the AFLW blocking from sporting fields?? They play on ovals – not rectangles. It’d only be an issue with cricket if anything.

Please justify your assertion the “AFLW is not a real competition”

How is it not real??

You do realise that all the football codes in particular have been effectively forced to seriously explore female participation – because of soccer. In the 2000s soccer participation boomed……on the back of girls soccer because boys soccer was largely flatlining.

And girls participation was a real target area for Government. So – for local Govt grants the girls in soccer was prooving really, really, really useful for them to access facilities and grants.

Aust Footy for decades has been very closely associated with netball – and in many areas you have FNL and FNC, (football-netball leagues and football-netball clubs). Still do. But that wasn’t enough.

The AFL correctly figured female footy was important – and started what they thought would be a much slower journey to establishing a womens national comp….perhaps by this year. However – as they got the process moving including one off exhibition games (Melb vs Bulldogs) – the interest was above expectation and participation was growing. The establishment of the league was accelerated and we’re at the point where this year there were 1092 female teams in Victoria (80% juniors) compared to 58 teams back in 2010.

So – what might have been more of a reaction to soccer – – – and in that might have been more what you’ve asserted (to combat other codes); it has however turned into an unexpected gold mine for the AFL. That it has attracted new sponsorship is great.

And what the local leagues and AFL now has is about 30% female participation (soccer still around 20%) so the AFL has a stronger argument with local Govt etc for facilities/grants etc on the back of encouragement of female participation in sports.

I assure you that was never going to be even the most optimistic short/medium term outcome. The AFL have been so very pleasantly surprised. What does the future hold. Depends on how much the AFLW can be monetised. But in many respects AFL clubs are better for now having mens and womens footy teams under the one club banner. Not sure how independent the AFLW can become in the medium term at least.

NRLW has learnt from AFLW's disrespect

#westernred

Really……do tell.

NRLW has learnt from AFLW's disrespect

#Randy

Firstly – don’t defeat your own argument with wrong assertions. The AFL did NOT “fill AFLW teams with sports people who have never played the game in their lives”. I say this – because I in part agree with your sentiment but can’t agree with your statement.

‘fill’ is far from an appropriate assertion here.

Firstly – many of the ‘cross coders’ shared a back story of the like of Erin Phillips – having played it growing up but got to a point where they had to give it away because there was no pathway. For someone like Phillips – she’s jumped at the chance to come back to footy late in her athletic career.

Of the ‘cross coders’ you speak of – there weren’t really that many. Certainly not ‘filling’ the teams. I didn’t really agree with it – I would’ve prefered the AFL/AFLW not go down that path (because it allows for silly & largely false generalisations to be made).

The vast majority of players came from the ranks of already established womens footy around the country. (Note ironically that womens AFL in QLD was well in advance of many of the ‘AFL’ states).

The main tricky bit is how much people can dedicate to the shortish season – it’s a fine line. For the more wanna be pro players – longer is better is more money. For the fringe players it’s better to keep it shorter/sharper and less time off work.It’s a tough equation to balance. The top paid players are hardly living the life of luxury.

NRLW has learnt from AFLW's disrespect

#Justin

Too much ironing……I’m mean irony.

Alas poor Toby Greene might be hung out to dry this evening…….that’s the main pressing story I see presently…….are you with me on this?? irony/flatter/board/pressing/hung out to dry……….or am I just amusing myself here??

NRLW has learnt from AFLW's disrespect

#Justin

Was that deliberate?

Excessive irony can flatter all of us – I’m board and must get back to work.

NRLW has learnt from AFLW's disrespect