Last Sunday rekindled the great rivalry between Carlton and Collingwood

By Chris Lewis / Roar Guru

Is there a more famous rivalry in Australia’s various football codes than Carlton versus Collingwood?

Incredibly, after 125 years of clashes since 1897, both teams were tied at 128 wins each (and four draws) prior to last Sunday’s clash.

While a number of major rivalries exist among the Victorian clubs, the Carlton-Collingwood rivalry is so long and profound that supporters of both clubs look forward to their annual clashes no matter where the teams sit on the ladder.

Although meeting in the grand final just five times (1910, 1915, 1938, 1970, 1979 and 1981), with Collingwood only winning one of these clashes (1910), the initial rivalry mirrored the immense social and religious divisions that emerged in Melbourne by the early 20th century.

Collingwood then was an area with many tanneries, breweries and shoe factories and they often recruited Catholics. Carlton was more of a secular club in a middle-class suburb largely administered by tradesmen and businessmen.

Such differences helped to shape generalisations (whether accurate or not) within the club and fan rivalry.

The first grand final between Carlton and Collingwood (1910) included a huge brawl that led to four players being suspended for 12 to 18 months at a time when players did not wear individual numbers and tribunal hearings relied on witness testimony.

With hard, physical clashes being a feature of Carlton-Collingwood matches from that time, both sides gave their all during these tough years, including during the Great Depression when massive unemployment and widespread deprivation often meant that the winning Victorian Football League (VFL) matches was vital for players to deliver revenue for their families.

(Photo by Michael Dodge/AFL Media/Getty Images)

Even during Collingwood’s greatest ever period from 1926 to 1931, which included four successive premierships 1927-30 and increased its premiership tally to nine compared to Carlton’s five, Carlton managed to win five of the ten clashes between them.

Again in the 1938 grand final, when Carlton overcame a 39-point deficit to beat Collingwood, another major brawl occurred after the siren involving players, trainers and supporters with police reinforcements called to restore order.

Collingwood’s hatred of Carlton was also fuelled by Collingwood’s longstanding coach Jock McHale (1912 to 1949), who often ordered that the hot water was turned off in the visitors’ rooms when Carlton played at Collingwood’s home ground of Victoria Park.

Carlton’s Jim Baird, who played from 1941, also recalled the reality of hot water being turned off when also noting that Collingwood never invited you into the rooms after the game for a drink despite every other club doing that.

With Collingwood’s major rival during the 1950s in terms of performance being Melbourne at a time when Carlton’s performance waned somewhat, the great rivalry was again made evident by Carlton’s appointment of Melbourne champion Ron Barassi as captain-coach in 1965.

Barassi was someone who had a hatred of Collingwood due to the Demons’ shock loss to the Magpies in the 1958 grand final, which stopped Melbourne equalling Collingwood’s record feat of four successive flags.

Carlton’s 1970 grand final victory over Collingwood again overcame a 44-point half-time deficit. It was a match that also featured the great mark by Alex Jesaulenko over Collingwood’s Graeme Jenkin, an enduring image for Carlton fans.

While class divisions prior to the Second World War had given way somewhat by the 1970s as many moved to expanding outer suburbs, the Carlton-Collingwood rivalry lived on.

Carlton’s champion ruckman John Nicholls recalled his visits to Victoria Park during the 1960s and 1970s as “a nightmare of a place to go to”, that “you had to be wary where you parked in case your car got vandalised”, and that Collingwood fans would abuse you on the way to the ground.

(Photo by Mark Dadswell/Getty Images)

The Collingwood captain Des Tuddenham also experienced the immense dislike of Collingwood when one lady chased him across Carlton’s home ground of Princes Park screaming out “you’re a mongrel, Tuddenham”, while another lady at a different match hit over the head with an umbrella while calling him a “filthy bastard”.

Other events fuelled the rivalry into the 1980s and beyond.

During Round 10 of the 1979 season, a ferocious shirtfront by Collingwood’s Stan Magro knocked out Carlton’s captain-coach Alex Jesaulenko, which sent him to hospital.

Yet Carlton overcame a five-goal lead at half time to again win despite Magro also decking Carlton’s Alex Marcou, which resulted in another scrap between many players.

A great moment for Carlton fans yet despair for Collingwood occurred in the 1979 grand final when Carlton’s Wayne Harmes made a desperate chase, dive and swipe at the ball in the forward pocket during the last few minutes to set up Ken Sheldon to goal from the square, which sealed the flag despite Collingwood fans believing the ball was out of bounds.

After the match, the Carlton president George Harris stepped up to the microphone at Princes Park during the celebrations to ask the fans “what’s better than beating Collingwood by ten goals? Beating them by five points in a grand final!”

Carlton’s 1981 grand final victory over Collingwood, their last grand final clash, also overcame a 21-point deficit during the third quarter to bring further despair to Collingwood fans, who had now experienced 11 losses in their 12 grand final appearances since 1952.

However, during the 1970s and early 1980s, besides the few clashes that were played at the all-seater 78,000 Waverley Park, Carlton-Collingwood clashes would often see capacity crowds at the relatively poor suburban grounds where most fans stood through the matches. 

(Photo by Michael Dodge/Getty Images)

From 1970 to 1980, Carlton’s home ground of Princes Park hosted Collingwood with crowds over 40,000 on five occasions with many other clashes attracting more than 35,000, while Collingwood’s ground of Victoria Park also drew near 40,000 in 1970 with three other clashes above 35,000.

From 1983, of the many Collingwood-Carlton clashes played mostly at Waverley, they attracted six of the 20 biggest home-and-away crowds at that ground before it was closed.

With Carlton-Collingwood clashes have been played at the MCG since 1993. Over 70,000 fans have attended on 27 occasions with many of these matches drawing more than 80,000.

Even when these teams are going poorly they still draw a pretty good crowd, as evident in the second clash of the 2005 season when 48,000 attended despite both sitting last and second last on the Australian Football League (AFL) ladder.

The great rivalry between these two clubs was also evident after Carlton were found guilty of deliberate, elaborate and sophisticated breaches of the salary cap during 2000 and 2001.

That led to a huge fine and the club being stripped of several early draft picks in the 2002 and 2003 AFL drafts, events that ultimately weakened the club for the next six years before the Blues returned to the finals in 2009.

During this dark 2002-08 period for Carlton, the Blues still managed to beat Collingwood in six of the 14 matches, despite Collingwood clearly being the more successful team by making the finals five times.

The battle between these two famous clubs goes on.

With last Sunday’s four-point victory giving the Magpies a slender 129-128 lead over Carton after 125 years, this famous sporting rivalry continues as one of the greatest rivalries within Australian sports.

What do you think?

The Crowd Says:

AUTHOR

2022-06-05T00:37:07+00:00

Chris Lewis

Roar Guru


I often wonder what happened to Peter Mckenna. Loved watching him and others on World of Sport. 1972 there was Mckenna and Blethyn kicking 100 goals. I wore glasses and barracked for Essendon. only started to go to AFL matches in 1974.

AUTHOR

2022-06-05T00:02:34+00:00

Chris Lewis

Roar Guru


:laughing: brutal. I did see some massive brawls though, all involving Essendon supporters.

2022-06-04T23:54:32+00:00

George Apps

Roar Rookie


I WAS bashed at Vic Park in the late sixties. We were playing South Melbourne and I was behind the goals in the outer and one of South’s ruckman had a go at Peter McKenna. I gave him a mouthful, next thing I know a little old lady in red and white in front of me clocked me with an enormous umbrella!

2022-06-04T23:42:44+00:00

George Apps

Roar Rookie


One thing was worse - admitting you were a liberal voter!

2022-06-04T23:41:16+00:00

George Apps

Roar Rookie


No, it wasn't! That ball was out of bounds!

2022-06-04T15:11:12+00:00

Bell31

Roar Rookie


Thanks for the memories Pete – I recall when I was 12 having a friend who was super-passionate about the Pies and convinced me, on a few occasions, to go to Vic Park from the start of the Reserves curtain raiser in standing room, as well as the Seniors game, and there were certainly a few characters who started drinking from the start of the reserves and were pretty sozzled by the time seniors game started. Great article btw to the author – I didn’t know about the 1910 and 1938 melees. I do remember thinking in those days that Collingwood was very working class, with Carlton being a bit more upmarket, but interesting how near the suburbs were to each other, which no doubt fuelled the rivalry.

AUTHOR

2022-06-04T02:25:08+00:00

Chris Lewis

Roar Guru


wow, i used to stand on the cans as well. Did so at 1974 grand final and often at suburban grounds. I was only 5 foot 3 when 12, but six foot by 16 so it got easier.

2022-06-04T02:17:33+00:00

Peter the Scribe

Roar Guru


Glad you got through Chris . I remember being in standing room Vic park standing on beer cans to try and see. Ended up covered and reeking of beer. Some blokes had hoses leading to the nearest gutter to save losing their spot when nature called

2022-06-04T01:38:20+00:00

Kevo

Roar Rookie


(looks like I doubled up. Took a while for first post to go through)

2022-06-04T00:31:54+00:00

Kevo

Roar Rookie


Morons in packs are usually pretty gutless individuals. That sort of situation is terrifying for young / vulnerable people. Glad that fella had the integrity and courage to help you out.

2022-06-04T00:12:28+00:00

Kevo

Roar Rookie


???? - meant to be a wink emoji

2022-06-04T00:07:18+00:00

Kevo

Roar Rookie


Just had to double check after I read your comment Peter. He was the sub, may not have got a run. Suffered a bit of depression Alex, I remember him coming to the Pies with a bit of cheek and confidence in a good young fella way but he had his struggles.

AUTHOR

2022-06-04T00:02:47+00:00

Chris Lewis

Roar Guru


Only time I was nearly bashed at football was at Victoria Park, but it left a positive memory. At a time when being called a wog was pretty regular, i was held up by a group of teens my own age who would not let me through the hole walking around near the old members stand, But this older anglo kid took them all on, ushered me through and me think terrorised the kids. I learned that day that some morons were tough in groups, and that some individuals were both tough and honourable.

2022-06-03T23:48:22+00:00

Kevo

Roar Rookie


Yes true, definitely a bit more wealth. More of a sacred vibe around Vic Park though ????

2022-06-03T22:27:51+00:00

Peter the Scribe

Roar Guru


Blimey Kevo I don’t even remember Fasolo playing in that GF such was his impact

AUTHOR

2022-06-03T21:50:49+00:00

Chris Lewis

Roar Guru


Yes, lygon street was lot more upmarket than the area around Victoria Park. LIke a different world, yet not so far away from each other. Even going to Princess Park with the beautiful park area around it was a huge contrast to Victoria Park.

2022-06-03T19:47:24+00:00

Kevo

Roar Rookie


Blues had awesome teams through that era with quite a few genuine champion players. Apparently the boys use to party pretty hard too, although most clubs probably did back then. Imagine if mobile phones and social media had been around...

2022-06-03T19:13:23+00:00

Kevo

Roar Rookie


Peter McKenna cashed in on a bit of superannuation at the Blues too. Although that one hurt deeply as he was my first Magpie hero and should have stayed a one club man. Also that same year I reckon he may have been handy hanging around the forward line in the 77 GF, he could still kick a goal. Although had Fabulous Phil not had one of his brain snaps we probably win the drawn GF in Tommy's first year as coach.

2022-06-03T19:07:01+00:00

Kevo

Roar Rookie


How did I forget that one! Think Fasola may have been an early indicator that all the stress and pressure was getting too much for Mick, Peter.....very lucky to get a guernsey in the 2011 GF against the Cats.

2022-06-03T19:02:29+00:00

Kevo

Roar Rookie


Pretty sure Heath went from playing in back to back GFs (and coming within a bees d of premiership) at the Pies to going to back to back wooden spoons at the Blues. Must be a unique record in the AFL.

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