'If I knew you would do that': Raynal made the right decision the wrong way

There's a consistent furphy about this that needs to be cleared up. I must admit I first thought the same, was called on it and on a closer look changed my mind. Foley is not in the act of kicking when the whistle blows. He is stationery. In the video I saw, Foley is looking over his left shoulder, before taking a glance to the right and then starts his steps. The referee comes into picture and gives the appearance of stopping him from taking the kick. Without the audio it gives all the appearance of the ref stopping Foley in his run-up. It is vital to have the audio for the full picture. (excuse the pun). I've struggled to find the video I saw where the audio has not been overdubbed losing that critical whistle. Without that whistle it appears quite different. This aerial video (tiktok via facebook) shows the full incident, in many respects better than the ground level. as it is possible to see when the ref make the decision to blow the whistle. https://www.facebook.com/colvin.brown.5/videos/1454853251649551 Penalty is blown at the 7 second mark. Time on is blown at 44 seconds. ... "and we play now." Watch from there a few times. The ref moves to try to get into Foley's sight line. Calls "10" (Foleys number) to get his attention as Foley is looking at the forwards continuing huddle 180 degrees from where the ref is standing. The ref waits... And he waits, then raises the whistle. Foley still has not moved. At 55 seconds, the ref blows the whistle and takes a step toward the mark. Look closely and you'll see Foley is still in kicking stance but still has not moved till half a second after the whistle.! Please don't say Foley was pulled up taking the kick. He wasn't.

That’s a ridiculous analogy. We rarely see anybody convicted for treason, does that mean the next person accused of treason should be let off? Well, yes, if the multitudes are running around committing treasonous acts, then why are you singling the next person out?

Well as my article asked, is rugby wrestling? Nic White is the hated Iron Sheik and the ref used the steel chair on the villain's chest and the crowd cheered :silly: :silly: :silly:

Correct Ken. JM is just making up some facts to suit his argument. 15 seconds elapsed after time was called. In that 15 sec the ref called time twice and blew the whistle as Foley was in the act of kicking the ball. Prior to starting his run up, Foley was looking over his left shoulder at his team mates in the huddle. The referee was about 5 metres away on his right side. The crowd noise was deafening. The actual rule (20.5.) just prescribes that “A penalty or free-kick must be taken without delay”. The delay is not defined and the referee can interpret it anyway he wishes. There is no requirement that the delay be reasonable in the circumstances, the referee could penalise after 5 seconds if he wanted to and be within the black letter of the law. So perhaps the delay law does need to be defined in the laws of the game.

Was Raynal correct? No :thumbup:

A 160% turnaround?

“ All his teammates were shouting and raising their arms to make him go quickly but he ignored them.” Half his team mates were in a huddle. You’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

The greater good drowns in many seas.

Excellent analysis.

Why do you say it is not a good law? The intent of the law is to stop teams deliberately running the clock down and delaying the game. It should also be applied when teams go into a "huddle" (a la gridiron pratice) to discuss their next play. It is a GOOD LAW if it speeds up the game!

I just think Nick White is such an annoying person who comes across aggressively and most people do not take that very well. Whether the ref's finger actually touched White has not been clarified to my knowledge. So a bit of finger wagging? Nick's response was "You cost us the Championship". That, was frankly a massive exaggeration! A huge call! But in the heat of the moment something that was designed to rile the ref.

Couldn't agree more. Over the years, I have seen all sorts of contentious issues that Australian players have reacted to poorly and inevitably misinterpreted or got their own way. From The Brumbies getting the coach sacked to supporting Quade Cooper's attack on McCaw to what happened last weekend. Foley just did not think he had to do what he had been asked to do on multiple occasions. What senior experienced player would think that! But the worst part is the sense of aggrievement and entitlement the players seem to think they have. It's one reason other teams love beating the Aussies because they know the reaction that is coming and it brings a smile to their faces. Whatever Foley says will be in an effort to minimise any responsibility he has for this event. So lots of spin. When in reality he should just learn from it.

Then change the rules if theyare not correct !!! The ref is the guy who applies the rules. all refs in all games can make decisions that not all people agree with but that is how it goes. Otherwise do not play with a ref and let the players decide.

You got it wrong. The ref warned Foley numerous times about time wasting so communication was spot on. I think Foley was making as if he didn’t care about it and took his time making the clock turning to win the match easier. All his teammates were shouting and raising their arms to make him go quickly but he ignored them. He got what he deserved. Let’s put it the other way round and it was NZ getting warnings and a penalty against them at the same moment of the game I don’t think any aussie would had any complaint about it. Australia defended poorly the last scrum and that was it. Bad losers.

Everyone seems to have overlooked the fact that there is a very good reason for this happening at this point in the game. If Foley had of kicked it out, there was a small chance that the ABs could have got possession and scored. Just like with the underarm incident, Aussie did not want that chance given, so they cheated

The conversation on this topic has been very interesting. My gripe is that even if a warning was given, he blew his whistle and awarded a scrum even after he saw that Foley was running forward o take the kick. If Foley had his back turned to him and was ignoring his directives one could understand it. But not when Foley is actually in the process of complying with them. A bit rich in my book. Still an example of " how NOT to referee a game".

This is not the first time this rule has been enforced. James O'Connor received a red card for throwing the ball away after the referee had warned our boys to stop time wasting. I think it was in Wellington and the referee was Joubert? How Koroibete ever lasts 80 minutes is a mystery to me. I suspect other officials would have sent him off twice in the latest iteration of Red Neck Wallaby Diplomacy. Please someone tell him what his arms are for!! He will cause further embarrassment at the RWC when he is almost surely due for an early shower at a critical moment. Who can seriously argue that the attack on the knee of the poor AB was accidental? The man is a dumb F.... . In Victoria it is lore that if you are going to hit a bloke, make sure he can't get up. This clown can't even perform a head butt that causes injury.

I hear a lot about this law never being enforced and the refs later released comments. The most remarkable thing to me about that footage was how much Foley had been warned . I have never seen that level of repeated warning , yet aline it bring ignored. Rest of the aussie team seemed to understand the point to the degree of ahoutimg at their team mate . How do you fault the ref here ? I fully respect if Mr Foley has develoental challenges , as some rugby players do, but responding to basic guidance seems a reasonable expectation.

When we look at the bigger picture outside this event, or a number events like the final decision in the lions game Vs the ABs, the question for me is: how did a sport let the role of a referee get to the level where play to the whistle means they can do what they want? No other sport would stand for it. But because there is always a side that benefits from subjective reffing and all they want is a win, the greater good drowns.