Were the 1971 British and Irish Lions touring team to New Zealand a better side than the 2015 Rugby World Cup-winning All Blacks? And what do we mean by ‘better’?
The Lions were a much more brilliant, inventive side than the 2015 All Blacks. They were superbly led by coach Carwyn James and captain John Dawes, both Welshmen who also dominated the touring party. It was a golden era for the Welsh, who won the Five Nations and produced many scintillating backs and courageous forwards.
The Lions took on a daunting tour with 26 matches spread over 14 weeks and confirmed their unique status as the only international team chosen exclusively to play away from home.
Carwyn James was a quiet, philosophical coach who instilled in his players the self-belief that they could beat the All Blacks on their home turf.
“On previous tours we hoped we would win,” said Willie John McBride. “This time we believed.”
The Lions finished the tour with an unbeaten provincial campaign, including the infamous match against the Canterbury side. It will depend on whose side you are on as to who was to blame for the thuggery in the game.
Tane Norton, the Canterbury hooker, said, “The Lions blamed us, we blamed the Lions”.
Gerald Davies, the Welsh winger, described it as “the most violent game” he had ever seen.
Alex ‘Grizz’ Wyllie said, “It was just a bit of biff and the game wasn’t as bad as portrayed”.
I would suggest that if the opposition lie over the ball on the All Blacks side, then they will be handed out some All Blacks justice. Rucking the ball is allowed, but it can easily cross over to stamping and trampling. Ask JPR Williams.
The All Blacks had previously lost their series against South Africa in 1970 and tactically were naive in thinking their staid game plan would beat the Lions. Carwyn James figured that individual talent could beat a well-drilled game plan.
“From the age of six they played the same pattern, rigid and predictable,” he said. “It produced winning rugby, so why should they change?
“They love the perspiration but are not all that impressed by the inspiration.”
Maybe the All Blacks watched the Lions on tour and thought they too could play 15-man rugby.
The British and Irish Lions were 2-1 in the series going into the final match at Eden Park, which I was fortunate enough to witness. An All Blacks win was needed to draw the series, but this was undone by a brilliant 45-metre drop goal by the legendary fullback JPR Williams. It gave the Lions a 14-11 lead, which was followed by an All Blacks penalty that drew the match but wasn’t enough to draw the series.
When you have every player in a squad who is contributing towards a common goal the result is often a positive one. This coaching philosophy applied to the Lions. All players need to have responsibilities and need to feel important, thus giving them confidence. It can only bring out the best in everyone. We are seeing it today with the coaching of Brendon McCullum with the English cricket team. Trusted players are better players.
One interesting point to come out after the tour is that the Lions gave positive feedback about Colin Meads to keep him in the Test team even though he was suffering from a rib injury during the series, therefore making him a potential weakness.
The Lions also went to South Africa in 1974 on a winning tour, confirming their legendary status.
So now to the two teams, the 2015 All Blacks versus the 1971 British and Irish Lions:
JPR Williams vs Ben Smith: On the legend meter, JPR is ahead, so we must go with him. That’s 1-0 to the Lions.
(Photo by PA Images via Getty Images)
Gerald Davies vs Nehe Milner-Skudder: Davies was electrifying and wins this. Lions 2-0.
David Duckham vs Julian Savea: If you want to see some of the best side-stepping in rugby, watch Duckham in the 1972 Barbarians match against All Blacks. He’s one of my favourite players. Sorry. Julian. Lions, 3-0.
John Dawes vs Conrad Smith: Dawes was an impressive leader, but as a player Conrad gets this. Lions, 3-1.
Mike Gibson vs Ma’a Nonu: Gibson was a classy, stable player, but for sheer power it’s Nonu. Lions, 3-2.
Barry John vs Dan Carter: Can I leave the room? This is just too close to call! I have put on a bulletproof vest for the incoming flak. I know Carter never played on a long tour like John, so Barry is at an advantage there. You just had to be there to see Barry John play, he was absolutely infuriating, he was that good. Innovative too, with the round-the-corner goalkicking style not seen in New Zealand, and he was try-scorer and magnificent punter. Yes, I am going with Barry John. Lions, 4-2.
Gareth Edwards vs Aaron Smith: There are legends and there are legends. Talk to many and they will say Smith is a legend. Will he be thought of as Edwards is? I do not think so. Another very tough call. Getting older is making me appreciate the finer things in life. Edwards wins. Lions, 5-2.
Mervyn Davies vs Kieran Read: It is getting harder! My recollection of Davies is not that strong, I know he was a helluva player though, but Read just pips him. Lions, 5-3.
Derek Quinnell vs Jerome Kaino: Two hard men! And this is a hard call too, but Jerome by a nose. Lions, 5-4.
Fergus Slattery vs Richie McCaw: I liked Slattery as a player, but he is up against a legend. It’s five all!
(Photo by Tim Clayton/Corbis via Getty Images)
Willie John McBride vs Sam Whitelock: And you thought Carter versus John was hard! These are two magnificent players who would be fully deserving of this. Will today’s players be remembered in 50 years in the way players like McBride will be remembered? I have this feeling they will not. But Whitelock by a short head! All Blacks, 6-5.
Gordon Brown vs Brodie Retallick: Like I said, it is getting harder! Brown is acknowledged as one of the all-time greats of Lions rugby, having gone on three Lions tours. It’s awfully close, but I’ll pick Retallick because I am Kiwi born! All Blacks, 7-5.
Sean Lynch vs Owen Franks: Lynch and Ian ‘Mighty Mouse’ McLauchlan were drafted in after first-choice props Sandy Carmichael and Ray McLoughlin were injured and sent home. I must give this to Franks. All Blacks, 8-5.
Ray McLoughlin vs Joe Moody: It’s the All Blacks, 9-5.
John Pullin vs Dane Coles: It’s Dane Coles because I am not a hooking expert! It’s 10-5 to the 2015 All Blacks.
Well, there you have it, individual versus individual, a win to the 2015 All Blacks. The Lions backs were superior and the All Blacks forwards were dominant – isn’t that always the case? That Lions backline was brilliant, led by the indomitable Barry John, known as the King while in New Zealand.
Who would win this match? Who cares, just appreciate two of the best rugby teams in the history of the sport.
One thought: the Lions were still dominant in 1974. Where were the All Blacks in 2019?
Who do you rate as the best?
FunBus
Roar Rookie
The Lions team in ‘74 was significantly better than the one in ‘71. One line made me giggle. The idea that there could be a ‘debate’ about who was responsible for the thuggery in the Canterbury game is hilarious. Both the Boks and the ABs used the provincial games of Lions tours to inflict as many injuries for the tests as possible. It was woven into the fabric of the tours as late as 1997 when Doddie Weir was deliberately put out of the tour. Its peak was the Lions tour to SA in the late ‘60s and then the ‘71 tour. It’s why the Lions felt the need to bring in the famous ‘99’ call before the ‘74 tour.
K.F.T.D.
Roar Rookie
Like could Tyson beat Ali, etc.
Rocky's Rules
Roar Rookie
@Peter Yes and I've that game several times. In its day that game was exceptional. But take another look now and objectively compare it to todays Test matches. You'll just say ... yeah ok nothing special. Also note the Barbarians teams of that era played a totally different style to any other international team. They actually tried to score tries :laughing:
sheek
Roar Guru
Peter Darrow, Tsk, tsk, always follow your gut feeling, well, for sane people anyway! A lot of people have died during this holiday season & every other holiday season through misadventure brought about by poor decision making. All very sad & reinforces the point you can never legislate against stupidity, as tragic as it may be.
sheek
Roar Guru
Trog, To play rugby successfully you need to develop players with flexible minds. The one style of play will only win you games so often, whether it’s 10 man or 15 man rugby. A game can change from one match to the next or within the match, & you need the flexibility & mental smarts to recognise the need to change accordingly. Up to the end of amateurism (1995), South Africa shaded New Zealand as the most successful rugby nation on earth. They built their success on a monster pack, winning scrums & line outs, dominating possession & wearing the opposition down. They kicked for territory & for goal, keeping the scoreboard ticking over. Then in the last quarter when the opposition was physically spent, they spun the ball out to score easy overlap tries. NZ adopted mostly a similar style but were usually more adaptive & inventive at other times. When professionalism arrived in 1996, NZ quickly overtook SA’s win-loss record due to a more adventurous attitude, but easily becoming pragmatic when circumstances required them to be. For most of the professional era, the All Blacks have shown how you should play winning rugby. Australia, poor dim-witted Australia, has rarely understood how to play successfully continuous winning rugby. We are obsessed with fancy-Dan backs, suffering an almost continuous memory loss that forwards actually win rugby games, the backs only enhance the scoreline.
Trog
Roar Rookie
Agree about the ten man approach, but then came the Ella bros etc. An outside back in todays game only gets the ball when the attacking team is playing under penalty advantage! Ten man still
Trog
Roar Rookie
Well done, a really good read. Back to the future may be a way forward
Mo
Guest
Jd what is true is that elite rugby is nothing like club rugby. We are just not fit and strong enough or big enough. So are they playing a game that we are required to watch?
Mo
Guest
Well said sheek. I was born in 72 so don’t see much before 85 but for example I don’t care how badly Aron smith and Dan carter compare they would and under pressure have gotten the job done and been truly great. Mcaw is the only player I’d never swap. In the nz World Cup he played with a broken foot and stole that ball upside down! Love pocock smith Jones but mcaw gets 7 against all comers. Kronfeldt was a good a 7 as anyone actually needed. He’s not going to be the reason you lost.
Mo
Guest
Messi is one of the best footballers of all time. You can only play what s in front of you and Messi has been wonder ful for the best part of 20 years
Muzzo
Roar Rookie
Hahaha Peter, Batts was never afraid of nobody. As he said back then he’d take on, or confront anyone, with the exception of one person. That being Keith Murdoch, as he said, due to him being like a raging Bull, with ball in hand. Actually that is written in a player of that eras book. I can’t think of it off hand!
Colvin Brown
Roar Guru
Fair enough Muzzo. There was only one Pinetree. And while my memory has almost now gone to pasture, I still remember Pinetree's comment that Stan was the better rugby player but had to stay back and look after the farm.
John
Guest
Pedro Maybe check out the archives Willie didn't play the 4th test V Sth Africa Lister was brought back Furlong was 1st five Fergie wad Fullback in Lions 1st test I think BG at Center Ken Carrington on the wing
Muzzo
Roar Rookie
Yeh mz, but really that Lions front row, were so lucky that Keith Murdoch wasn’t available for selection for the AB’s, due to personal problems
Muzzo
Roar Rookie
Yep Johnny, most rate Carwyn James, who IMO was possibly the best coach to come out of the NH, but many seemingly forget that Laurie Mains assisted in the creation of a legend! Jonah Lomu anyone?
Muzzo
Roar Rookie
Disagree Colvin, as Piney would still virtually walk into any AB team, even now. He was a competitor & was always up for the challenge. Even he said, it was always a competition between him & his brother Stan, who he rated a better player, but then, someone had to stay at home to look after the farm.
Muzzo
Roar Rookie
Piney RIP, was a hard man Peter, as was his Bro, Stan, but as he always said ( Piney), someone had to stay at home to look after the farm. IMO Piney would more than handle himself in todays top level. Even with the different training procedures there are in place now, he’d be up there!
Muzzo
Roar Rookie
Pretty right Riccardo as in balls! Pigskin against the light weight ping pong rubber?
Muzzo
Roar Rookie
I wouldn’t say the best of all time, but IMO possibly the best to come out of the NH! We’ve had some good ones in the past, & one that sticks out for me, was ‘ Fred the Needle’ Allen .
Muzzo
Roar Rookie
It must be remembered Otago that the AB’s did have that fella from Ravensborne missing! Do you remember him? That great after hours barman, at the Ravensborne tavern, Keith Murdoch, who just lived up the road towards Port!