Six Nations Wrap: 'More negatives than positives' as France scrape past Italy, Gatland fumes over Welsh discipline

I understand why they do it but when SA haven't played in Eden Park since 2013 it tells you NZR are picking who they play there to keep the record going. Or they can only fill it for Oz which may be the reason. SA back to the same venue as before. El Gamba was implying NZ are the best as playing them in Eden Park is so hard to beat. My point is they are refusing to play SA at Eden Park for 10 years so Eden Park isnt the fortress Stade de France has been for France over the last two years. France played to top SH team in Paris in the last two years. NZ have only played Oz regularly at Eden Park so not the same.

As an alternative viewpoint, NZ has four main test venues. Eden Park, Waikato stadium, the Cake Tin in Wellington and Forsyth Barr in Dunedin. In any given year outside a world cup year NZ will host up to 6 or 7 home tests. Unlike the home nations which use the same venue for all their 6N tests and touring sides, NZ, SA and Australia will allocate to as many venues if not all each year. If it were not for the pandemic SA would definitely have played the centenary test at Forsyth Barr in 2021 and not Eden Park. Not because NZRU refused to but because Carisbrook in Dunedin was the venue for the first test between these two teams.

France in Paris. They are able to bully you like SA or run it like NZ. NZ in Eden Park only is a fortress because they don't play there all the time. 5/13 games between 2020 and 2022. The last time that SA scored a point at Eden Park was 2013, not because they failed to score but because NZRU have refused to play them at Eden Park. Since 2010 NZ played SA 2 (2013), Fra 2 (2018), Eng 1 (2014) Ireland 2 (2022), Wales 1 (2016), B&I 2 (2017). I exclude the WC as unusual circumstance. Oz they have played there every year except 2010 & 2013 when the faced SA. In constrate NZ has played at the Aviva 4 times in the same time period. Its easy to be unbeaten for years at a place if you only play your little brother there who believes he can't win

Or who would you least want to play?

Okay, I understand how the rankings work and yes, get that NZ have been ‘slipping’ not just on the ranking metrics but performance wise. Whatever team you support, who would you rather play? France at Stade Francais, Ireland at Landsdown Road, Scotland at Murryfield, England at Twickenham or New Zealand at Eden Park?

Handling skills of the NH forwards has come on massively. They believed they had to have forwards that could throw a 20m pass, give offloads and run around players like they believed all SH forwards could do. Now they have them they are finding they can do more in attack not just defence and that maybe their players are better now they can both attack and defend. We saw with Scotland the same players who made the last try also where very good without the ball. May be why Wales and England have been worse at scoring tries lately too.

Having a team like Benetton to build your team around helps in a big way. They are top half of the URC and finished second in their Challange Cup pool. Their win in the rainbow Cup was a big moment for them (as was Toulouse for the French team) as it showed them they could win. Belief goes along way and they can now actually open up teams so less worried about the breakdown like 10 man rugby. They were the only team to lead against France last 6 nations so not to much of a surprise first game up. Rankings show teams in groups and no ranking system with teams about +/-1 similar. It can't show a team on its day but its as close as you can get. SA, lost two games at home, Eng & NZ 3, while Ireland & France lost none. New Zealand lost to Ireland and Argentina who were both ranked lower at home at the time even before the 3pt home advantage was added on, which is why they dropped. SA lost to a lowly Oz and Wales which cost them. NZ failed to win in 5 games during 2022 adding in the 3 in 2021, SA similarly have lost alot if games in those two years. Ireland and France between them have lost 7 I think in those two years. At the start of 2021 France and Ireland where a long way off NZ and SA but proved they were better. What is your reasoning to say NZ are the best when SA is the only team in the top 4 they have beaten the only way you get NZ as best team is have the rankings over 5-10 years. SA lost 3 times to a side that has been beaten by all other 9 T1 sides in the last two years (never played Fiji, Japan or Georgia) WC may be different as NZ showed in 91, 95, 03, 07 and 19 but few would disagree that Eng were worthy winners in 03 as they had beaten SH teams home and away leading up to the WC. I don't think NZ have ever before gone into a WC where they have at best a 50% win ratio against another team in their pool and the two teams most likely face in the 1/4s in that WC cycle. For France and Ireland they have done it loads.

Eddie won half the tournaments he played in this WC cycle. Rennie had a whole tournament at home and still struggled. Yes Eddie fell away badly but its not like he wasn't successful in parts. Did Rennie ever get above 50% win rate in any of his 3 years. Even Pivac managed a 6N championship but then failed.

Ireland looked very cohesive in the first half. The way their forwards get around in general play and handle the ball is very effective. I thought Calen Doris and Sheehan both had strong games.

I understand and agree with what you are saying. I’m just saying that’s ranking system based on w/l, which is fine, but it’s just a snapshot of today and the last few months which obviously feed their metrics. A team can be more than those metrics is what I mean. Interesting to see Italy come close to France but it’ll still be a loss

Not sure what Roberston would bring that a coach who has worked in many countries and took a team from last to winners in one season can’t bring. Not sure Robertson could do what he had done if he was at the Force or Rebels. The fact that both RA and RFU ignored him says where he fits in. I am sure he will grow but if he plays a test side like his Crusaders relying on defence to wear teams down it might not go so well. Ask Rennie and Pivac how much harder the breakdown is at test level compared to SR/Club with less time and space to counter. Has Robertson taken a team from never having won anything to Champions like O’Gara who says himself he still is not fully ready. Robertson would not have the players in 6 month blocks with England and they are brute force merchants not skills based. If England went SH they would have gone SA like Dobbo at the Stromers who understands power working in a fee skillful players. McCall was a better choice who makes Robertson’s trophy haul look a bit small and his style is more suited to England, for some reason he doesn’t want it. Let’s see if Roberston gets the AB gig or if he takes the plunge against seasoned coaches in Europe, he might even have to coach against other SR winning coaches though most left after failing here.

Garbisi is such a better game manager and kicker which is why he was keeping Pollard out of the team in Montpellier. With him they play much better. Allen is a good back up but not as a starter.

So a team that has one win in 5 against Ireland and France is better than them. As we were told when NZ were top the teams that win move up. NZ have failed to beat England Ireland or France away from home. France have beaten Ireland away and Ireland have beaten NZ away twice. Ireland have also beaten England away. Only top 5 team before this weekend away from home was SA.

Eddie would need to include the B team wins over Canada and USA to have a better win rate that Rennie over the last two years. I can’t recall Rennie having any games like that last two years - please remind me someone if that’s not right Rennies first covid year stuffed him in terms of overall win rate stats - 1 win 2 draws 2 losses = 20pc

World Cup to early. Most of their star players are barely 25 so next WC will see a core team in their late 20s with the current u20s bulking up the squad. Menoncello is just 20. Them and France will be stronger in 2027 than this year which is a scary thought. And the new players coming out of Italian academies are real professionals in size and skill compared to 10 years ago.

How would you call England's games easy but Oz teams hard. Oz played a tour v France at home and England at home. France let behind all their T14 semi finalists including Toulouse and La Rochelle players. Eddie had a winning record v France this WC cycle and not a weakened team bar the 2020 Nov game. Rennie has lost to every single 6N side something only Pivac (also fired) managed. Rennie also lost to NZ who only beat Ireland 1 in 4 and failed to beat France or England so not that strong a team. Eddie was sacked for losses to Argentina and SA at home and failure in the last 2 6Ns. His record v the SH was fairly good unlike Rennie when he came North and won two games in two tours.

Rennie took an Oz team that had played 7 games before Paris against a French team who had got together a week before the game. This first round of 6 Nations is teams who have not played together since November. Rennie problem was he couldn’t get Oz over the line in any of the three games we’re the Nations could call on all uninjured players. His two wins were against a Scottish team that could call on Russel, Jones, White or any other OS player. Similarly Wales were missing all their OS players too including Bigar.

I thought that there was a lot of positives . . Italy started the year as they finished last year .***** . France were almost on song , discipline let them down .*** . Scotland bucked out really well.***** . England are in limbo , the same as they were under Lancaster and Jones . They needed Robertson. ** . Ireland were brilliant then went into River Dance mode . **** . Wales were aweful but their pride bought them back in the second half . **

I guess we’ll see.not convinced myself

Kiwis team too beat than Saffas Ireland France us there abouts But our draw is worth a game in hand.