A peek under the hood of the New Zealand rugby factory engine

Thanks again for your valuable contributions, fiwi. It is of course no mystery that the reason that your homeland is perennially the team to beat and the measure of one's program is precisely because you guys play the most rugby, and top level rugby, of any union. Australia faces many economic impediments in terms of the growth and sustained development of rugby precisely because it is a very big island, the biggest island on earth in fact. This reality makes the tyranny of distance one of the most intractable problems for any sports administration body to accommodate as it is one that they cannot alleviate by any legal means and it increases year on year. The very high cost of travel makes it very difficult for supporters to actively support their teams as they cannot necessarily physically make it to all or even most games unless they are played geographically close to where they live, hence the massive (relative) following of club rugby. And this lack of "gate" return means that advertising revenue isn't exactly throwing itself at rugby clubs and competitions, thus broadcasters have little interest in displaying the game in prime time and the potential audience is therefore diminished. The overall effect is a game in decline or certainly not in growth which has its own self-fulfilling, vicious cycle quality to it. You might claim that this represents a lack of effort on the part of supporters but the fact is that rugby supporters are perhaps even more parochially invested in their teams than NRL or AFL supporters are, they support their team because that is the team where they live, not just the team they support because their family supports/supported it, but they can't turn out in their droves due to the time and expense. Since the majority of NRL teams are concentrated in Sydney and AFL teams concentrated in Melbourne, the geographic distance people have to travel to watch their team is negligible, hence the far higher average turnouts. And, as much of an effect as cost of travel has on professional organisations, semi-professional and amateur clubs lack the resourcing to even slightly accommodate this massive cost and in amateur and junior comps here sometimes fixtures have to be abandoned entirely because there is no ability of the teams, their supporters or the necessary officials and support staff to make it to the venue. What is the furthest distance that any team has to travel within New Zealand? This isn't a trick question because I don't know myself but I think you'll find that the costs to your local teams in terms of travel time and expense are dwarfed by those faced by Australian teams by orders of magnitude. This makes it entirely unfeasible to even attempt to emulate the levels of competition that you have available domestically. This is another reason why rugby in Australia is so fractured and un-unified and why even serious attempts to generate additional competitive tiers for amateur, semi-professional and professional comps here has not worked so far and is unlikely to change substantially in the near future. If rugby received any government funding at all, at any level, that enormous cost could be partially offset by the public funding. But as far as I am aware there is zero will at any level of government to financially support rugby, the "elitist's" game. Meanwhile, the NRL is financially underwritten by the NSW government and the AFL receives massive funding from the Victorian government, funding which neither competition actually needs due to their enormous advertiser and private equity appeal but which they both make full use of to further invest in junior development and development of their respective women's games (though the latter point is somewhat arguable). I would love it if Rugby Australia were able to support more rugby competition here as it would mean that I'd never have to find an alternative sport to watch in the "off"-season as there wouldn't be one (or it would be so negligibly short that it would barely count). But, as things currently stand, this is a pipe dream and even if the on-field fortunes of Australian rugby improve substantially, distance will continue to be a significant roadblock to any further development of a functional national program that unifies the junior, club, franchise and international levels of rugby.

The fees thing is massive. When my kids played in Canterbury, the fees were paid by a sponsor and there were cub games on Saturdays and interschool mid week. The latter was very telling. At my kids school, the rugby kids got taken to their games at Sth Hagley in a Union supplied tour coach. The kids playing other codes rode bikes or had a ride in someones car. Our kids had hot showers in the rugby pavilion, the other kids rode home in the rain for theirs.

Yeah, sure, they just threw together a deal with Europe in 15 minutes while the ANZACs were still scratching their head trying to figure out what SR was going to look like. :laughing: Covid may have accelerated the move, but the plan was already well in motion. Where did the Cheetahs and Kings play in 2018? It is them who probably have the most right to feel unvalued and aggrieved.

Or did it? Didn’t the ANZAC’s pull the plug? Maybe the Saffa’s knew the writing was already on the wall. The conniving was already in the know. Now the ANZAC’s have what they wanted, and it is biting them on the ass! The Saffas have found a new home, and the pendulum has shifted. The power is now in the North, and the Boks are benefitting, whilst you blokes ate bleeding! Now you want to shift the blame! Please just get a grip, or fuck right off, instead of peddling porkies ????

You for got heartland div 3 of itm cup. Also that the club structure revolves around the provincial structure to maximus area. And also create a tribe like environment which is really quite smart as to add to the native tribal base that has been around prior to colonization. And the club is like a tribe or marae. Quite smart really. The main thing is it's not upper class. Like most other places, and is inbuilt into the cultural identity of alot of kiwis. Branding of the all blacks and haka makes it a great identity with alot of adaptation and a centralized system that maximizes spending etc. ????

heartland is for the smaller ,more rural provinces. smaller populations spread over large areas. they play in the heartland comp, which is part of the overall n.p.c. comp. the bigger ,more populous provinces are welly, manawatu(palmy north),taranaki(new plymouth)southland(invers)auckland,etc. theres 12 teams in heartland comp and 14 teams in n.pc. comp. 5 super teams based in five of those n.p.c. cities..

hurricanes V crusaders next week. two levin old boys face off (coles and taylor) . in levin. small (15000) town 1.5 hrs nth of welly. expected crowd of 5000. easily the biggest crowd for anything in levin. swandri's and redbands come to town! watch out for the badly driven hi-lux!

NZ rugby is always about to perish according to some. 70s 80s 90s 2000s 2010s and now 2020s. Ive been watching the failing NZ rugby economy be very successful over 50 years now Big A. You seem to believe that because RA is run extremely badly and fails financially that NZ must be doing the same. Well it aint. NZR has millions in the bank with more to come, has assets that profit and has tripple the TV deals the Wallabies have. NZR is now officially proping up RA with the latest deals around SR. With your attitude all countries would perish as they would have all just given up.

@Tom...... They will have no choice man the clock is ticking for common sense to prevail - it's only a matter of time before the super rugby participants will be reduced to like an under 23 comp unless they tap into the aus market - my background was in rugby league and as Eddie recently said it was the Ellas back in the 70s and 80s that converted some of the league people to watch rugby - if they can just somehow tap into 20% of the league market and get them watching both codes then the television money will follow - with your attitude new Zealand will perish just like west Indian cricket has - you have to look at the bigger picture

yep - out of southland boys high what confidence for a 19 year old with the clock almost run out

My hopes are getting up. Young Taylor summed up the moment really well. I he took the tackle he would of been isolated and a penalty given up with time basically done but he had the skills to chip perfectly. Is he a Southland lad? Size, speed, courage and sympathetic passing would be good.

It looked exactly like you would expect from a Dermody side. We are a lot bigger than last year. Young taylor puts up a contender for try of the year already

Also, for those that don’t know, that pre-season game each year is played out in the country at small town rugby clubs - the Farmlands Cup - https://www.farmlands.co.nz/NewsAndEvents/News/-Farmlands-Cup-2023/

Managed to catch the last 15 on the Highlanders stream. So I got the good stuff. Jack Taylor! Really great to see a young player just back himself. Looks like busting holes in the midfield with offloads might be our offensive weapon this year.

Excellent summary Watched the Highlanders v Crusaders trial game yesterday So many quality kids playing who came through the respective academies and the local NPC teams. They will have two full Super seasons before gaps in the All Blacks need to be plugged. Very optimistic

Gday Om Boys had a good win over the Cantabs in the Farmlands Cup yesterday Really liked our structure under Dermody Obviously no All Blacks involved so to our advantage We have some great young players on the Mainland in both squads

Absolutely Big A. All those 35-38yo Kiwi players leaving for Japan will devastate NZ rugby to the point where they will need to select 23yo's to take their place. Its such a shame that they cant all play IN NZ until they are 45 or maybe even 50 as thats what would keep NZ rugby strong. Go play in your own comp if you want to select players from everywhere and anywhere but NZ will never go to a silly policy like you are suggesting. Why should NZ be rushing to replace a coach? They never sacked one.