Golden generations: Should Australia look to Wales or Ireland for inspiration?

By JD Kiwi / Roar Rookie

How does a rugby union in Australia build the sort of sustainable, transformational improvement that it needs?

To help us find out, let’s look at the two great success stories of Celtic rugby from the past twenty years. We’ll enjoy these stories for what they are – visionary Aussies and Kiwis empowering the underdogs to consistently punch well above their weight for an extended period.

But we’ll also examine why one of these countries is now weak and in a worse place than when it started, while the other is going from strength to strength, its ever growing success built on the most solid foundations possible.

In the first article of this golden generations series, we looked at how the fortunes of rugby nations tend to rise as a generation matures, and fall away again as it ages. A bit like the bell shaped normal distribution curve from high school maths.

In the second we studied how the All Blacks managed to stay at their peak for an extended period. Then in the third we went even deeper by looking at the deep cultural ties that make South African rugby great.

This time we’ll look at how the long term potential of a rugby nation can be utterly transformed for better or worse. Either by rugby’s own decisions or by societal and economic factors outside its control.

The good news though is that a nation like Australia can take a quantum leap upwards. The bad news is that this can take a longer time than many fans and administrators are willing to wait.

The great Welsh decline

If rugby became an intrinsic part of Afrikaner culture through its farmers on the veld and its prestigious schools, for Wales it was its miners in the valleys and its grammar schools.

Rugby was Wales’ national sport and it was a great rugby nation, enjoying a favourable head to head record against the All Blacks until the 1960s and Australia until the 1990s.

Wales also won the Home Nations/Five Nations outright more times than anyone until England caught up in the 1990s and even now has the most titles if shared wins are included.

The 1960s and 70s were golden years for Welsh rugby, dominating the Five Nations and history’s greatest Lions teams. So many great players – Barry John, Gareth Edwards and Phil Bennett to name a few – playing spellbinding rugby that ran rings around opponents.

This was cut short in the Margaret Thatcher years by a rapid and colossal decline in the manufacturing and mining industries that the valleys’ economy and society relied on.

They still haven’t been replaced. The heart has been ripped out of the Welsh rugby heartlands and the decline of grammar schools has robbed Wales of its great rugby nurseries. (Does anyone know more about this tumultuous period?)

Now Wales’ bell curve now sits a long way below the likes the likes of New Zealand’s and South Africa’s. They’ve never really been World Cup contenders with world semis and Five/Six Nations wins their summit so far.

In the 28 years 1980 to 2007 they occasionally achieved these peaks, with a World Cup semi in 1987 and Five/Six Nations wins in 1994 and 2005.

The Warren Gatland renaissance

The difference with Gatland is that, even with domestic rugby in the doldrums, he hit the peak very quickly and kept hitting it. In many ways a similar achievement to the McCaw team in that he sustained the peak hit by the original golden generation.

Compare this record for his twelve year reign with the preceding 28 years:

2008 Six Nations Champions
2011 RWC Semis
2012 Six Nations Champions
2013 Six Nations Champions
2019 Six Nations Champions
2019 RWC Semis

A huge part Gatland’s Wales team was successive generations of players who would go on to play many Tests.

Arguably they were nowhere near the South African and Kiwi golden generations from previous articles in terms of talent, or even the English and French players they were up against. But Gatland was a master of getting a generation of players to become a close knit group and develop their combinations together, with a way of playing that suited their strengths.

He also believed that if a player’s home life was stable he could focus on the rugby and grow commitment to the team – so if for example Samson Lee wanted a day off to inspect a prospective camp site for his community, this was an opportunity not an inconvenience.

Gatland’s predecessors like Steve Hansen and Mike Ruddock had done a good job bringing through a new generation of players. So even though he inherited a team that had been knocked out of the World Cup by Fiji he had a solid core of experience, veterans of the 2005 Grand Slam.

(Photo by David Rogers/Getty Images)

We won’t go into this in great depth, but look at this list of quality players who had earned over 40 caps by the end of 2007: Gethin Jenkins, Adam Jones, Duncan Jones, Ian Gough, Martyn Williams, Dwayne Peel, Stephen Jones, Tom Shanklin and Shane Williams.

As that generation aged, look at how many of the victorious 2012 players are still playing for Wales eleven years later. Ken Owens, Justin Tipuric, Taulupe Faletau, Rhys Webb, George North, Alex Cuthbert, Lee Halfpenny, Liam Williams and possibly Jonathan Davies.

And don’t forget young Alun Wyn Jones, who was in Gatland’s original 2008 team. What are your memories of these great players and this great time?

Perhaps this is the route that Australia should follow. Find a coach who understands generational cycles and knows how to get the most out of the chosen generation.

A coach who will make the team more than the sum of its parts. A coach who will bring through the next generation before it’s too late.

It was certainly a great time for Welsh rugby fans with frequent trophies and, better still, wins over their great rival and neighbour. Which Aussie rugby fan wouldn’t want that?

Problem is, yes normal distribution curves will take you from the bottom to the top, but after that they tend to send you back down again. Gatland delayed that second bit, but even he couldn’t last forever and neither has the high performance of his golden generation.

Now Wales are probably worse off than when they started. They’re a lot like Australia, the domestic game and development pathways struggling and falling behind a rival code, crowds and player numbers falling, test results through the floor.

Ireland raises its curve

Now for the story of Ireland. Once again with plenty of gaps for Roarers to fill in.

Ireland’s generational curves were always even lower than Wales’. Just three outright Five/Six Nations titles between 1951 and 2009 and none between 1985 and 2009. And they’d never even got past the quarterfinals of the World Cup.

Far from being Ireland’s national sport, rugby is behind Gaelic football, soccer and hurling, with its strength being in the posh schools. Now which other rugby nation does that remind you of?

So imagine the excitement at the turn of the millennium when a golden generation including, well, generational talents came through.

True greats and very good players like Brian O’Driscoll, Ronan O’Gara, Peter Stringer, Shane Horgan, Gordon D’Arcy, John Hayes, Simon Easterby, Geordan Murphy and David Wallace. Then Paul O’Connell in 2002 and Shane Byrne 2001. Surely this was to be the great opportunity?

For a long time it might have seemed not. Not a single Six Nations Championship had been won in 2008, when Gatland was snapping up Wales’ second Six Nations Grand Slam.

Ireland got their first the following year but they hadn’t added to it by the time Wales had won their fourth title in 2013 and the O’Driscoll generation was aging. Was World Cup quarterfinals and one Six Nations win Ireland’s ceiling for even a golden generation?

Maybe it still would be were it not for something far more fundamental that happened, also around the turn of the millennium. Ireland’s provinces started to play right through the season and strengthened links to their clubs.

This was a major step towards building a smooth development pyramid, with all the top players constantly plying their trade at an elite level and the best club players getting a chance there too.

Then Aussie Steve Anderson, frustrated in his work for the far less visionary Scottish union, joined in 2005. He set out the high performance programme for the next eight years. What a ‘Sliding Doors’ moment that was for Scotland – they weren’t interested in such a long term plan. Now look how far behind Ireland they are, when historically they were so much more successful.

If you’re an Australian rugby fan be sure to check out Christy Doran’s interview with Anderson, but be sure to have a box of tissues handy for your tears.

More Australians built on these solid foundations. Especially Michael Cheika (2005-2010) head coach for Leinster’s first Heineken Cup triumph and David Nuciofora, Ireland’s High Performance Director since 2014.

Ireland have ensured that the whole pyramid is geared towards the test team, for example in the huge amount of United Rugby Championship matches elite players are rested from. Could club obsessed French, English and Australian sports fans have accepted that?

But could anyone imagine Johnny Sexton still masterfully controlling the best team in the world at the age of 38 without years of being so well looked after?

To illustrate this, I put together this list of appearances in all club and test competitions by Ireland’s top 15 this year to date (some will have played in the URC or Heineken final since then) and last year.

Compare these to the 30+ games French internationals tend to play:
Hugo Keenan 18, 24
Mack Hansen 22, 20
James Lowe 11, 22
Gary Ringrose 19, 26
Stuart McCloskey 21, 18
Johnny Sexton 10, 20
Jamieson Gibson-Park 15, 25
Caelan Doris 20, 26
Josh van der Flier 20, 27
Peter O’Mahoney 23, 24
James Ryan 21, 17
Tadhg Beirne 18, 18
Tadhg Furlong 11, 24
Dan Sheehan 23, 26
Andrew Porter 23, 23

With all this in place, Joe Schmidt was able to make Leinster and then Ireland the established kings of Europe, adding belief and structure to Irish passion.

Andy Farrell then added attacking variety to that and might be about to make them kings of the world. And the future looks even brighter as the Under 20s have now started to dominate Europe.

Prioritise the top by focusing on the bottom

None of the glory enjoyed by the coaches and players would have been possible without administrators who were willing to forego the quick fix.

They took the long road, strengthening the bottom of the pyramid and the pathways up it, hoping that this would lay the foundations for a seemingly impossible increase in the potential height of the top of the pyramid. Shifting its generational curves up to a level previously undreamed of.

Which is exactly what’s happened.

All this in a country much smaller than Australia and where, as we mentioned earlier, rugby sits behind Gaelic football, soccer and hurling but is well established in the posh schools.

So what do you want for Australian rugby? Would a Gatland style golden period be very good thank you very much? The Bledisloe finally won back along with pride in the jersey.

It took the Irish policy well over a decade to really bear fruit. Are you willing to wait that long? Or is transformative change needed whatever the continued short term pain?

Over to you.

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The Crowd Says:

2023-06-13T13:22:23+00:00

SUFTUM

Roar Rookie


Haha. Templepatrick. Knew a few from there. Was a long bus journey to the Academy… Sure was brought up in Ballymena until study took me away. Back last year for a fleeting visit.

2023-06-13T13:20:31+00:00

SUFTUM

Roar Rookie


They have to some extent been lucky in that the provinces have always existed so using them as the 4 main professional bodies was a relatively straightforward decision. This hasn’t worked in Wales where teams were created by merger. Ireland have then had the benefit of this structure -school to club to province to international - which has then been optimized by Nucifora with the national team at the pinnacle, but crucially improving the teams at all levels. Like the structure in NZ many in Ulster are proud and happy just to represent Ulster, just as many of the NZers are proud to represent their Super Rugby team. It’s impressive and I think sustainable.

2023-06-09T11:14:56+00:00

Micko

Roar Rookie


It wouldn't be a "waste of money" because I'd propose an actual proper professional league with any team able to recruit whoever they want. An having these franchises strategically placed to where their actual fans are. Maintaining the status quo isn't getting RA anywhere, and pretty soon they will be down the NZR road of begging outsiders to give them money.

AUTHOR

2023-06-09T08:35:37+00:00

JD Kiwi

Roar Rookie


The sad thing is Micko that you're seeing the problems but you've got the wrong solutions. Yes the other sports are in the posh schools. The answer to that is to make rugby's programmes in those as good as they can possibly be. As you said earlier, rugby has taken its eye off their heartlands wasting its resources and focus on trying to cut a path through virgin jungle. Doing it the most expensive way possible, with pro teams. If they'd kept on doing what they were doing in their heartlands they wouldn't be in this mess. And you want to waste money on more pro teams! And how can you say you don't have enough opportunities when there are so many players who clearly aren't good enough needed to pad out the squads you already have? It was never just a couple of golden generations by the way. It was a pretty continuous conveyor belt of talent from the 1977 schoolboys for over twenty years. That was the key thing that you've lost. It's not like having lots of defections to league is new - how many of that schoolboy team went off? Australia thrived without lots of pro teams because they had a great production line and winning teams to slot them into. Despite the defections to league that took some away. That's the key.

2023-06-09T07:02:03+00:00

Just Nuisance

Roar Rookie


World Cups yes JD , SAs record speaks for itself but overall win loss ratios hover in the mid 50% areas . given the sheer weight of numbers of registered players , SA have not maximised its talent .A major structural issue is that the overwhelming number of professional players come from just a handful of High Schools .Yet rugby is played by literally thousands of schools . So the vast majority of players are falling through the cracks .

AUTHOR

2023-06-09T06:39:03+00:00

JD Kiwi

Roar Rookie


I'd add England to the underachievers list with their one world cup. South Africa have won three so I think you're being a bit harsh on them. Also the numbers aren't static. Your numbers 20 years ago weren't so high I think. Same for Ireland. Australia's and NZ'S are heading the other way.

2023-06-09T04:52:29+00:00

Just Nuisance

Roar Rookie


Finding out true stats regarding registered players anywhere really is a challenge ..I actually thought about writing an article a while back comparing numbers of registered players to performances per country and found depending on the source that estimates differed wildly ..I even emailed the boards of Ireland , Australia and South Africa seeking assistance . Best response I could get was from RA giving me a case nr as if I was reporting a crime ..But overall based on the figures I could get the big underperforming countries pro era relative to the number of players were South Africa and France . Overachievers NZ and Aus.

AUTHOR

2023-06-08T21:20:13+00:00

JD Kiwi

Roar Rookie


Maybe he's a mummy's boy like Dylan Hartley :laughing:

AUTHOR

2023-06-08T21:10:12+00:00

JD Kiwi

Roar Rookie


I like the article too Phil. Either option would work well for Australia except you need your main final with the Wallabies available.

AUTHOR

2023-06-08T21:00:53+00:00

JD Kiwi

Roar Rookie


Absolutely Jacko. Some people just need excuses!

2023-06-08T20:49:49+00:00

Micko

Roar Rookie


The lack of professional opportunities, plus the competition from other sports means it's hard for them. Not just the NRL, but the AFL is trying to push their programs into their private school heartlands. The AFL made the tough decisions decades ago to even up their comp, with drafts and the like, with no side allowed exclusive access to junior zones, except for the non-heartland areas, to promote their sport, and allow these new clubs in new areas to be competitive. Australia succeeded with a couple of golden generations, and a sport with little realistic international competition. South Africa weren't even there in the first two iterations of the world cup, and have been the most successful since they've permitted to enter. Australia's major issue is too much interaction with NZ in an inappropriate format, where players aren't allowed to freely compete in open recruited intermixed teams, which would be the realistic driver of improvement in Australian players. NZR make sure to keep their players at arms' length. Australia has too few pro franchises, and can't really afford to reduce any further, even if that made their SR sides more competitive with their NZ counterparts.

AUTHOR

2023-06-08T12:37:45+00:00

JD Kiwi

Roar Rookie


It looks like I didn't make my first point clearly enough (my fault.) Not that long ago Australia had much bigger player numbers than Ireland, roughly in proportion to the population of NSW/QLD v the island of Ireland. Also much more on field success. I think we're agreed that due to bad strategic decisions in Australia and good ones in Ireland this has changed. The question is how does Australia get back to where it was? Well, neither Ireland nor Australia became great by expanding the number of professional clubs. That simply doesn't work in rugby without burning up hundreds of millions of dollars (France) and even that can end in ruin (England.) It failed in England despite all that money pouring in because they couldn't compete with France and it would fail in Australia because they would never be able to compete with rival codes here or rival leagues in Japan and France. No chance. Australia succeeded when they put their best players in three professional clubs and looked after their grassroots and development pathways. Ireland succeeded when they put their best players in three professional clubs (with another smaller club with a smaller budget mopping up the leftovers) and looked after their grassroots and development pathways. Neither country needed any more pro clubs. They succeeded by building the foundations and concentrating their pro talent enough to ensure that their clubs were competitive and their test team had a high Ben Darwin cohesion score. It's a formula that works.

2023-06-08T12:21:43+00:00

Brendan NH Fan

Roar Rookie


Good article. We only need look at what games the Oz or NZ u20s have played at SR compared to the French team. Sam Whitelock is going to Pau in the top 14. There he will meet Frances under u20 locks Hugo Auradou aged 19 who played 3 Challange cup games last year for 159 mins. This season he has got 501 mins in 12 games. He will come up against 20 year old Lock Miles Amatosero (Oz born) at Clermont who has 588 mins (14 games) this year and 263 mins (7 games) last year, at 18 he got 190 mins (7 games). He went to trinity and then Waverly in Sydney. If he had stayed in OZ he is not getting that much playing time in SR. On all.rugby the locks who are 20 or younger are Fabian Holland 20 at Highlanders (207/5 2023, 49/2 2022), Possibly Hugo Plumer at Canes no age given 9 mins this year. Daniel Maiava but think he is over 20. If I was an 18 year old forward I would be learning french and calling every club there as it seems like the only way 95% of the players will get professional games before they turn 21. Why would you waste your time in the SS/HC or NPC when you can train every day with Whitelock or Skelton and gets games before you hit 21 in possibly the best league in the world.

2023-06-08T11:24:15+00:00

Brendan NH Fan

Roar Rookie


I think it is easer to stay in the system you are in and better chance of winning things with Ireland but his mother's heritage would have played a role in his life.

AUTHOR

2023-06-08T07:30:04+00:00

JD Kiwi

Roar Rookie


Great that the game is expanding Miz!

2023-06-08T06:42:50+00:00

Micko

Roar Rookie


No, the latest stats have Ireland way ahead of Australia in pure playing numbers (close to NZ!) and hence massively dwarfing Australia in per capita stats (also like NZ), so when considering both the massive population difference between the two (similar to Aus & NZ), and also when considering the sport's heavy reliance in Australia on migrants from NZ/PI, SAF, Britain & (ironically) Ireland, to heavily prop up playing numbers (etc) in Australia, it's clearly a gigantic uphill stretch for Australia purely on that basis without any other considerations. Gaelic footballers now are developing an NZ style cultural reliance on Australia for professional sporting opportunities, with more and more making the switch to Australian Football, and hoping to impress AFL scouts, and thus get recruited by AFL clubs, so no realistic domestic rival in Ireland any time soon. The major issue has been solely the SR/SRP format, which has seen no growth in franchises in these two heartland states. Sydney alone could easily have 3-4 franchises, and in Brisbane/SEQ easily 2-3. To grow actual pathways for the sport needs a whole ground-up/top-down revitalization, requiring a complete overhaul of the lame duck professional tier from anything resembling SR/SRP (which realistically only works for NZ & NZR). It has been a failure for Australia; seen national team performances decline, sees less public & media interest than ever for the sport, and sees a lack of growth in professional opportunities...the ultimate salt in the wound being the recent success that Mack Hansen has had defecting to Ireland, and now representing them and doing well in what is a golden era for the Irish national team.

2023-06-08T06:40:46+00:00

mzilikazi

Roar Pro


" he is as much Scots as Irish just born in Ireland." I would have thought he is to the core Irish, Brendan. Born in Tipperary, led Glenstal Abbey to their only Schools Cup win ever. And he turned Scotland away at great financial cost for Munster a couple of years ago. His mother a Scot, yes, and he will have Scottish relatives, grandparents esp. Be interesting to get his answer.

2023-06-08T06:29:11+00:00

mzilikazi

Roar Pro


" I understand that Munster for instance has a wider catchment." Yes, we always heard it said that the working man played rugby in Limerick, but I think not Cork, though would need a Munster person's view on that. Interesting point is that a lot of very good players are coming from West Cork now. Good club base there, and I'm pretty sure Bandon GS was, in my day, a hockey school. Jack Crowley and Gavin Coombes are Bandon boys. And yes, there are those dominant schools in Ulster. But again some new powerhouses emerging, like Wallace HS, Lisburn, also a former hockey school.

2023-06-08T06:22:06+00:00

mzilikazi

Roar Pro


Ballymena Academy, SUFTUM ! I might well have been educated there, had a few things taken a different turn. My home was the Templepatrick area, just over the hills from Ballymena. Had we lived in the village, I would have def. gone to Ballymena Academy....direct bus route. Instead we lived on the bus route from Aldergrove to Belfast. Was your home actually in Ballymena ?

AUTHOR

2023-06-08T06:02:35+00:00

JD Kiwi

Roar Rookie


Especially the last one RR. Ireland and Australia have both proven that will work.

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