Talk of Sam Whitelock returning home tells us a few things. First, we lack genuinely hard men in New Zealand rugby.
We have locks, many of them blessed with all the ability to succeed. But few, if any, with the ruthless, win-at-all-costs streak of Whitelock.
He is simply a hard bastard – physically and mentally.
Once upon a time, men of that ilk were a staple of our rugby teams. Now, Whitelock’s almost one of a kind.
This situation also tells us new All Blacks coach Scott Robertson will skirt round the edges of New Zealand Rugby’s counterproductive player eligibility regulations.
I wrote about them last week and am heartened to see Robertson potentially using whatever means at his disposal to pick players from Pau or wherever else.
The Whitelock scenario also speaks of the leadership vacuum in our rugby.
Sam Cane might’ve been All Blacks captain in name, but Whitelock was its leader.
I wouldn’t just get Whitelock back, despite him being 35 and having a huge number of playing kilometres on the clock, I’d make him skipper as well.
Samuel Whitelock of New Zealand looks on during the Rugby World Cup Final match between New Zealand and South Africa at Stade de France on October 28, 2023 in Paris, France. (Photo by Chris Hyde/Getty Images)
Richie McCaw’s tenure skewed a bit of thinking here. We became wedded to this idea that a captain is some kind of king and must have an uninterrupted reign, until he chooses to retire.
McCaw was a one-off, but we applied the same standard to his successor Kieran Read and All Blacks management never entertained not picking Read, regardless of form or what shape his body was in.
Cane, in turn, was always the heir apparent, no matter the arguments about whether he was actually worth a place in the side. It wasn’t always this way.
Captains came and went in my youth, not least in the years before McCaw.
I can think of Taine Randell, Anton Oliver, Todd Blackadder and Reuben Thorne all being installed, before we settled on Tana Umaga.
It was never a job for life and no-one expected it to be. Least of all the captains themselves.
At his age, Whitelock is far nearer the end of his career than the start, but for this All Blacks team at this time, he’s the ideal option.
The fact he’s worked with Robertson before also makes him a natural conduit between the staff and the players.
(Photo by Kai Schwoerer/Getty Images)
Thinking of Thorne, Read and captaincy leads me to a quick aside, about my first week covering the Canterbury rugby team.
Their 2008 squad was yet to be announced, but Rob Penney took me aside and said a young Read was going to be installed as captain.
“We’ve got high hopes for him,’’ Penney said. “We think he could be the next great man.”
I was a bit green back then and tentatively asked who the current great man was. “Reuben Thorne,’’ replied Penney.
He could’ve given me a dozen guesses and I’m not sure Thorne’s name would ever have ended up on the tip of my tongue. But I digress.
Robertson is a realist and as he casts his eye over our Super Rugby Pacific franchises, it’s clear he sees a lack of men capable of winning Test matches of consequence.
I could sit here, for instance, and write up a depth chart of players in every position and opine about their All Blacks selection chances.
But the truth is, many of our best players aren’t here. They’re in places like France or Japan and Robertson knows that as well as anyone.
Then there’s another absentee like the retired Dane Coles; a man cut from a similar cloth to Whitelock, who remained in the All Blacks’ squad after his best days were behind him.
Coles could still play on occasion, but it was his uncompromising attitude and hatred of defeat that made his presence critical to the group.
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Aaron Smith and Brodie Retallick were others in that category, TJ Perenara (when fit) too.
So that’s Robertson’s challenge: finding hard bastards that don’t accept failure or excuses or token efforts.
Any rookie coach needs men he can rely on and Whitelock remains one of those.
My interest now will be in seeing what lever Robertson can pull to get Richie Mo’unga back in the mix as well.
These are interesting times for rugby in New Zealand.
Super Rugby Pacific shows us that we still produce many fine athletes, with an enviable array of skills but that we’re increasingly short of actual rugby players.
You don’t contemplate going back to 35-year-olds otherwise.
Brendan NH Fan
Roar Rookie
I think that Oz is one of the best examples of what happens when you get into WC cycles. If players leave after the WC or are not picked due to giving new players enough time to get up to standard then the bar gets lowered. Currently at test level DMac is probably 3rd choice (might not be at club but I think so at test level). This means that he becomes the bar that others must pass to get selected. When a player is picked until they aren't good enough then the person who starts is the best and the bar is not lowered. Vaii is more or less the second starting lock and knows he only needs to be better than Lord and he will only feel the pressure as Lord gets better. With Sam Whitelock there then he must surpass him to get picked. Imagine if SW had retired after 2019 Scott Barret would not have had to push himself to get the starting spot. If you take the Max J situtuation he knows that he will get picked for the WBs as RA aren't paying him to sit on the sidelines
Cec
Roar Rookie
CW it not like NZ is short on young locks.
CW Moss
Roar Rookie
Cec, absolutely my man!.
CW Moss
Roar Rookie
Somewhere I read that some OB reckoned Jason Ryan was an absolute key to this forwards puzzle. He's got to be listened to as well; what does Jason think?
CW Moss
Roar Rookie
It's really just the short-term vs the long-term, Brendan, don't you think? The Abs who almost won the RWC have departed to bank money for their future, but maybe Razor will be able to bring them back home to ensure short-term wins. they are getting past it, so it's a balancing act. Why can't the NZ public be more reasonable? Is their very existence dependent on the AB's win/loss ratio or just beating Australia? :stoked:
Muglair
Roar Rookie
They need to bite the bullet this time. I suppose I would listen to an argument about the need for SW as a mentor and emergency back up during a short transition but BR and SW will not be at the next world cup. Lord, Tuipulotu and Vaa’i have been the up and comers for many seasons and the more games these guys play the better off the ABs will be. If they cannot compete now at test level this must qualify as a national emergency.
Jacko
Roar Rookie
Sorry, you wrote RM. RM was an ABs weakness over the last 4 years. Thats a Foster issue, no one elses. Foster never decided he wanted BB or RM and he never gave anyone a shot. Dmac hs been outplaying RM for 3 years at SR level. You dont hve to be in the winning side to be better than someone who is. You seem to throw to much weighting on a WC game where NZ had a lot of injuries and didnt need to win.
Brendan NH Fan
Roar Rookie
The big difference is that Sa have never been short of large hard men who have been great at the breakdown and contact. PSDT would be a lock and starting in nearly any other T1 team as would Snyman. The SR final in 2010 was Victor Matfield & Danie Rossouw v Andries Bekker & Adriaan Fondse. While a chunk did come through in one go for 2015 there were others there who were as good as anyone else.
Brendan NH Fan
Roar Rookie
Do you think that losing or drawing a series without SW will be better or worse for the young players than having SW or SF etc in the side. If England get a draw or win a series in NZ then expect the media to go after Razor and the team like they did with Foster in 2022 and discuss how his team of inexperienced coaches and players who only have experienced NZ rugby will feel. Last thing you want is an under pressure NZ side heading to SA having to win to stay in jobs nd how NZR should have gone for Joseph, JS, Cotter etc who had international experience like Henry and Hansen and not put in a novice in Razor like they did with Foster who only had Club experience. Razor can't build to the next WC if he starts the year with losses to SA, Eng, Ire, France because he must win every year and the NZ public are not as accommodating as the SA public who were happy to just be competitive after 2016. Razor has a team that could have won the WC, not leeway will be given in reality.
Brendan NH Fan
Roar Rookie
Not sure what you are referring to (with all the relies hard to see which this relates to). NZ winning the RC seems to be a given as even at their worst other teams don't seem to care as much. So they lost their first ever WC group game and failed to top their group. in the France game Vaii was subbed after 56 mins while coming back from injury SW l=player nearly 70 mins. Vaii the person who most expect SW to be up against for an starting spot started games against France at 6 (SW was starting lock), and lock v Uruguay, he got a bench spot v Namibia. He started v Japan in 2022, and USA and Italy in 2021. One of BR and SW were always out of the 23 in those games. Against T1 sides Vaii has had 188 mins in 2023 thanks to both SW and BR being injured leading up to the WC, both he and Lord were quickly removed from the 23 for the big games once both were back. 2022 again it was injuries to BR in the Ireland game that saw him get more game time. Yes NZ did well last WC cycle but was the games where the players who have retired played not the ones they sat out. In the SA games in 2022 it was RM and SF coming in that made a massive difference and with either NZ have looked alot weaker.
Brendan NH Fan
Roar Rookie
Facts are right and you may also be aware that Sam Whitlock is also a double WC winner. You said a player coming back from OS must play a season of NPC r SR before the could be selected. 26/09/2014 was his last game in the NRL. NPC 2014 season was 14 August – 25 October. 15 June 2014, Williams signed a two-year deal, starting in 2015, to play in the ITM Cup with Counties Manukau. On 8 October 2014 he played his first game for Counties and first domestic games since 2012 (alot longer than SW). So does SWBs 2 games in NPC make his selection ok or are the rules alot more complicated and NZR make them up as they please which is why Razor is doing what he is doing as he knows NZR will make exceptions. From 2014 “SonnyBWilliams gets exemption to be selected for end of year tour even if he doesn’t play ITM Cup,” the All Blacks said on their official Twitter feed.
Old Bugger
Roar Rookie
Maybe you are right….well done!!
Old Bugger
Roar Rookie
Get your facts right Brendan. SBW is a dual RWC medal winner….2011 and 2015. As usual, you like to spin a whole truck load of BS. Do us all a favour and pee off cos you definitely, missed the boat on SBW’s AB career. And if you thought his journey to the Roosters in 2012 mattered, trust me it didn’t cos he always had intentions of returning, for 2015 RWC. Except, he was once again, doing a cross code deal with NZR……not the same as a returning AB after an RU stint overseas.
Brendan NH Fan
Roar Rookie
Dec 2013 it was announced he would be returning to NZ in 2015 to play for the chiefs. So he couldnt be picked for NZ in 2014 which was a big problem. So he played a game or so of NPC and went on the EOYT. He couldn't play the NPC as was with NRL. So no they dont need to play a season of NPC or SRP. Whats the difference between being OS on a sabatical and on your own deal, both will only play domestically the following year.
Guess
Roar Rookie
Throw it again :silly:
Guess
Roar Rookie
Well razor is far from being as noisy as the clown but I agree it's surprising he's been talking quite a lot. Maybe it's NZ media attention
Old Bugger
Roar Rookie
There was no issue with SBW cos he was not, a returning AB from OS Brendan. He was finishing his french contract after leaving NRL and his signature, was more important than getting game time, in an NZ domestic season. It just so happened, he signed a couple of weeks before an NH tour and was immediately selected, for that tour as a new AB, on debut.
CW Moss
Roar Rookie
I think part of the NZ issue is that the prior ABs win/loss ratio was so good that anything less is seen as failure and baying for blood. Razor must be feeling it so he’s reluctant to develop some young guys in favour of having the old guard hanging on too long, just to beat England for example.
Brendan NH Fan
Roar Rookie
SBW only had to play one game I think it was which is the whole issue. At the end of the day NZR's main priority is the ABs and like SBW if they help the ABs either on the pitch or commercially off it.
Old Bugger
Roar Rookie
The rules are not unclear - they are established rules and everyone is fully aware of them.....including Razor. Players on sabbatical, can return from a season in Japan as per the terms of that contract and are immediately available, for AB selection. That condition is included in sabbatical contracts. Players who have signed OS contracts, unlike a sabbatical contract and return, must complete a domestic season in NZ (SR or NPC), before being available for AB selection. Razor isn't worried about players on sabbatical because he knows they are immediately available upon return. It is those players, who are not on sabbatical that he is trying to get NZR approval, to select. From the players you've listed, I think only Cane, Savea and BB are on sabbatical but, I stand to be corrected. All others, are on an OS contract for either 1 (Frizell), 2 (Whitelock) or 3 (Mounga) seasons. If your listed CT is Cody Taylor, then he is not on either an OS or sabbatical contract and remains contracted, to NZR. He is not available as requested and agreed by NZR and is on, an extended R&R break. However, in this particular instance, Razor is only pursuing 2 players (ex-Saders) - Mounga and Whitelock - and no-one else. But, why isn't he pursuing Frizell - perhaps, some players still in NZ aren't the rubbish, that you perceive??