The Ashes cricket end of day scores: England vs Australia 5th Test, Day 2

He's batting worse than a third-grader in the American sense, never mind a club third-grader.

Given that there are twenty counties and six states, the pool of English players in their top domestic competition is bigger than Australia's even accounting for the imports. There's a good argument to be made that the presence of imports (not all of whom are young Aussies learning their craft) means that the county competition is stronger than it would be were those imports not playing, so it cuts both ways. On that point, what degree of control does the ECB have over counties' player recruitment? Regarding tour preparation, I think both boards are in a reverse bicycle race there - Australia matched up against the might of the eighteenth- and nineteenth-strongest counties in their only tour matches, and had to play themselves to get decent competition.

i knew what u meant hr, don't worry. :thumbup: i can't stand warner. as i have made clear many a time on here. the fact that he is batting worse than a club third grader is just making my ulcers even more on edge!!

spot on general. i don't think us batting first would have been any different. especially given our openers in that first hour.

I’m not adverse to a bit of quid pro quo but I’m not sure that it’s anything approaching equity. For a start the domestic structures are different but English players don’t get to play Shield cricket in Oz and there’s absolutely no way that you’d get the situation that you had over in the UK where all of the fringe Aussie players were given County contracts and a chance to get themselves used to conditions and in some form a la Labuschagne. Bancroft was even made captain of Durham for chrissakes, it’s bloody absurd that the guy gets to rehabilitate himself in County cricket and he’s made captain too, you couldn’t make it up. The one time that England had a good preparation in Australia before an Ashes series was the one time that they actually won, in fact they completely smashed them. That sort of prep has never happened since...funny that.

We probably have different hopes on that front :stoked: Would it help if it was your county? A bit of player exchange does everybody some good, I think - young English players still come over and play grade here in Australia as far as I know.

I missed my :silly: face at the end of the comment. Oops.

No worries. And yeah, poor effort by the batsmen. Lyon shouldn't be getting the third-highest score. No chance of much weather by the look of it though.

You're right - definitely Wade. His chat is worth twenty runs an innings.

It's all relative I guess. Right now, he's the least worst of those on the squad that can play as an opener.

5 lemons in the top 7

Warner must be on very thin ground, I just read an article on cric info no player in as many years as one can remember has a batsman scored single digits in so many tests in one series. It was my fear here and they just persisted. Its actually a shame to watch it . I wrote to jeff on here indicating we needed to be very careful before the first test with warner , he had a poor first innings record in england (not one fifty outside of one dead rubber) and his numbers were boosted in 15 by flat wickets in london but he wasn’t good and hideous in 13. Of course I got a savage response for suggesting we should drop him for third test. he’s never looked good all series One more innings though in test so you never know . they should drop him down the order at least . He should have carried the drinks especially after what he instigated and did throwing smith and our team under the bus 16 months ago. He needed a break in this test for me either way . The knives will be out down under , I’m less bullish on selection down under as test averages at home come back in to it. Id have khawaja back in myself due to his decent average back there . Could do worse than take him and burns at the top , making the others earn their place back

I understand General, we are all smarting a bit with disappointment too from today , the selectors just haven't helped. I think labuschagne is a good case study on who to play in england. Average 58 and but for the wrist knock today and the run out down the order would have been higher too I think. His first class and test average is only around 38 yet he's another example of looking for the right technique and temperament on english pitches, only picked because smith took one in the helmet from archer yet his county form outstanding av 60 . I think carey would have converted 50s too with ease but its a harder case with only one county game in which he scored 50s but seldom has a player been so consistent in a world cup and on english soil. We had options. I think most captains would have batted first mate, I understand theres an argument to say there may not have been much in it like for like with the team we played but id have done it to rest the players . you are right that the bowlers have dominated this series . We have demonstrated we can make 500 runs though opening at manchester

Pierro, Yes the opening positions are really up for grabs, and the form of all players when the shield season starts will be vital. I do not envy the selectors in choosing a team for the upcoming summer tests.

Re batting first key for me was not only also batting first but also changing /omitting the openers as well, its true the bowling attacks have dominated in general this series but batting first here would have put less pressure on our bowlers after so much bowling just three days ago. We did rack up 500 declared at manchester batting first without openers effectively and once again batting first here racked up more runs for england. Also 4 of 5 tests have seen the team batting first make more runs . The bowlers tired yesterday due to bowling first, allowing england to make that extra 50 runs plus which is now invaluable , there is no doubt lyon was not ready to go bowling only four overs and the last session got tough last night leaking a few more runs from the two that have bowled so much in the last week. For me you’d bat every day of the week still at the oval, the english couldn’t believe it, root would have batted firsts would most aussie captains and langer virtually said it was paines decision on air, moreover we are now in a shocking position as we have to chase runs last innings by batting first. The runs are lower in this innings purely because the selectors bungled it up for me playing two players averaging 9 at the top and persisting with wade who has poor technique for english wickets in general. There were other options for sure (head, khawaja , carey. with our tails up batting first I think we could have made 350 plus , it looked to do more today on the pitch for me but thats hard to be sure on. Cummins and Hazewlood asked to bowl huge spells after 200 overs just five days ao and another 80 overs 36 hrs ago and back on again. not many would have made the call to bat first. Could we make more I think we could have, root would be successful in batting first with his decision . Heres hoping we can get them out for under 200 to give us some sort of chance tomorrow

Pierro, I agree with most of your comments. I was not criticising Labs, just wishing he could have turned some of those scores into hundreds. And don't get me wrong I think he has done a great job. And in an interview with Root on the BBC I think, even he said England had deliberated on bowling first or batting. In the end they did decide to bat, but there was some uncertainty.

Hey General, Rough on labs average 58 also took a few big knocks, the wrist knock was huge today which probably got inside his head a bit it looked super painful but he’s also had an innings where he had to go the knock with the tail enders at leeds, got run out I recall having to make runs so his average would be even higher, he would have made that century but for being stranded at the tail end. An average of 58 is huge for the series, he really singlehandly got us over the line with batting leeds despite the blunderous loss that should not have been. He’s made four fifties in a row his technique like another we could have played in carey is perfect for english decks as his ability to leave balls outside off so well.

Well no doubt a county will pick him up and help develop him, but I really wish they wouldn’t.

Harris has added nothing to the team. In fact, his inclusion made us worse in the field. He really is a pathetic fielder.

riddler, I agree the decision re the toss and who decided to bowl first in the aussie team is a mystery. However as it has turned out I do not think it has made much difference to the eventual outcome of this match. We could not bat out a full day on a supposedly easier and flatter 2nd day wicket. On the evidence of this match so far there is every reason to believe we would have been lucky to get 150 batting first. The bowlers have dominated both sides batting except for God (Smith).