Pardon, the officials apologized to Parramatta for this tackle ?
The same tackle that Graham A. just explained wasn’t a shoulder charge ?
Please cite a reference for that..I’ll wait as long as it takes...
An element of interpretation is necessary for applying any rule, unless you want the rule book to include criteria for the exact velocity a player is travelling at, the exact angles that seperate a front on shoulder charge from a side on shot, degrees of seperation between the arm and the body to the milimetre that differenciate between arm tucked or not, etc etc there will always be a need for interpretation.
Given that the NRL has already come out and stated that the rule was not brought in to punish side on shots and that they've been consistant in not charging (or at least clearing) examples of this for the judiciary I don't think its the NRL that's confusing the issue here.
Interpretation is how YOU OR THE REF sees and explains ( in this case we will use the rules)
What was Pongas right arm doing at the time of contact? Does it’s positioning fit the rules set regarding shoulder charge? You can interpret this many ways however what is clearly demonstrated does suggest Ponga could have easily been charged, this example is very clear and defining it doesn’t require interpretation it requires enforcement of the rule, when you begin to interpret you can and do complicate what’s been set as a guide line or rule
We'll wait and see which team Annisley apologises to. For mine the officials will have to make a clarification on this type shoulder charges which are more side on body checks. I saw it as a good tackle but I'm sure gutho didn't. Cost him a hatrick
'Under the new rules, a player will be charged if the contact is forceful, and the player did not use, or attempt to use, his arms (including his hands) to tackle or otherwise take hold of the opposing player.'
Straight from NRL 2018 rule book..if you cant see Ponga's arms and hands attempting to grasp Gutho then you just dont want to see..so, you know, the technical criteria hasnt been met at all.
It still meets the technical criteria for a shoulder charge but the refs boss has come out and said that's not what the shoulder charge rule was brought in to stop and that they may look at revisiting the rule to further clarify what a shoulder charge is in the off season. No one's actually said it's legal, just that it's not what they're trying to stamp out so cases wont be pursued at the judiciary. It's still up to the refs disgresion on how they interpret what is and isn't a shoulder charge on field.
... which we would know if they had rolled the tape a few seconds on.
IS there some sort of dispensation to do with saving a try?
Because I was only half-listening to the half-time discussion.
souvalis
Roar Rookie
A thousand pardons...
Emcie
Roar Guru
I reckon you read that wrong mate
souvalis
Roar Rookie
Pardon, the officials apologized to Parramatta for this tackle ? The same tackle that Graham A. just explained wasn’t a shoulder charge ? Please cite a reference for that..I’ll wait as long as it takes...
Insider
Roar Rookie
Valid Emcie, now we just need the refs to stick to the rules
Emcie
Roar Guru
An element of interpretation is necessary for applying any rule, unless you want the rule book to include criteria for the exact velocity a player is travelling at, the exact angles that seperate a front on shoulder charge from a side on shot, degrees of seperation between the arm and the body to the milimetre that differenciate between arm tucked or not, etc etc there will always be a need for interpretation. Given that the NRL has already come out and stated that the rule was not brought in to punish side on shots and that they've been consistant in not charging (or at least clearing) examples of this for the judiciary I don't think its the NRL that's confusing the issue here.
Cadfael
Roar Guru
Should have been a penalty and possible sin bin.
Cadfael
Roar Guru
Oh for the days when the rules were nice and clear. So many different interpretations now.
Emcie
Roar Guru
To ba fair mate, the officials already have, it just didn't suit the story lines the media was running with at the time
Insider
Roar Rookie
Interpretation is how YOU OR THE REF sees and explains ( in this case we will use the rules) What was Pongas right arm doing at the time of contact? Does it’s positioning fit the rules set regarding shoulder charge? You can interpret this many ways however what is clearly demonstrated does suggest Ponga could have easily been charged, this example is very clear and defining it doesn’t require interpretation it requires enforcement of the rule, when you begin to interpret you can and do complicate what’s been set as a guide line or rule
souvalis
Roar Rookie
Nah, he’s free to play next week..because what he did is not in the text..but , you keep believing whatever you want to believe..
Soda
Roar Rookie
We'll wait and see which team Annisley apologises to. For mine the officials will have to make a clarification on this type shoulder charges which are more side on body checks. I saw it as a good tackle but I'm sure gutho didn't. Cost him a hatrick
farkurnell
Roar Rookie
Poppycock-that's a text book shoulder charge in my rule book.
Emcie
Roar Guru
Why?
Edward Kelly
Roar Guru
no
souvalis
Roar Rookie
'Under the new rules, a player will be charged if the contact is forceful, and the player did not use, or attempt to use, his arms (including his hands) to tackle or otherwise take hold of the opposing player.' Straight from NRL 2018 rule book..if you cant see Ponga's arms and hands attempting to grasp Gutho then you just dont want to see..so, you know, the technical criteria hasnt been met at all.
Insider
Roar Rookie
“Interpret “ THATS THE PROBLEM WITH ALLLLLL THESE RULES
Sylvester
Guest
Yes. How does moving your arm from your body change anything? That's how SBW pulled off some of his meanest (and now illegal) shoulder charges.
Emcie
Roar Guru
It still meets the technical criteria for a shoulder charge but the refs boss has come out and said that's not what the shoulder charge rule was brought in to stop and that they may look at revisiting the rule to further clarify what a shoulder charge is in the off season. No one's actually said it's legal, just that it's not what they're trying to stamp out so cases wont be pursued at the judiciary. It's still up to the refs disgresion on how they interpret what is and isn't a shoulder charge on field.
Hicksi
Roar Rookie
... which we would know if they had rolled the tape a few seconds on. IS there some sort of dispensation to do with saving a try? Because I was only half-listening to the half-time discussion.
Emcie
Roar Guru
That's not quite what Benji said and what he said wasn't exactly true either.