Israel Folau says he was left with no other choice but to take Rugby Australia to court and has now officially commenced legal action against his former employer.
Science did nothing of the sort.
That was done by marketing and lobby groups.
The same type of people claiming that Climate change is a hoax to protect their interests in fossil fuels.
The thing about science is that it DOES change its mind when the evidence demands that. The thing about religion is that it persists with false beliefs and calls that faith. I'd prefer freedom from religion to freedom of religion, but I guess we won't end religion anytime soon, and denying freedom of religion will just prolong the age of religious faith. If people are free to state their religious belief then others are free to argue against them. I've come to the belief that RA should have just said that IF's view were not supported by RA.
By that reasoning, a person of colour who does not believe in white supremacist ideology could not be offended by a skinhead telling them that they are inferior due to their racial background.
Complete nonsense.
So Ms Banerji just went down on her freedom of speech for public servants argument. The High Court has said a code which prohibits public servants from making anonymous comment about govt policy was lawful, and public servants could be sacked for breaching it. Its up on the HIgh Court website and most newsites.
Bad news for the Folau camp. And for employees generally, but that horse had already bolted. Remains to be seen whether so called religious freedom will be given special treatment but I very much doubt it.
My mistake Aussikiwi, unfortunately it appears to be a reality of life that most people are quick to find threats and offence. For that matter, judging by this blog there are a lot of people offended by IF's comments (I suspect there are many, even non-believers like me who aren't though). Denying people a point of view, however incorrect that may be, will not solve the issue. No doubt you would be mad as hell if your right to post/male comment was denied you.
There is a big difference between feeling threatened by something and being offended by something. You conflate the two.
Young gay Christians may well feel both offended and threatened by the news that they are going to hell for being gay. Some of them, sadly, still resort to conversion therapy to avoid eternal damnation.
As an atheistic I feel offended by the needless denigration by Folau and others of a vulnerable group that has historically suffered horrendous discrimination.
Meanwhile the religious right us out on the street trying to deny women the right to control their own bodies. Now that is threatening. I guess freedom is a one way street.
Sorry Atheist, my logic tells me that it is irrational to feel threatened by something you don't believe in. Indeed I don't believe the nonsense about a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow, but nevertheless I can't help going looking for it.
Interesting that The Roar has seen fit to lose the most recent article on Folau's legal action, but still has a months old piece about Ma'a Nonu's Tesla, featuring an astounding number of comments (two) the last of which was on May 1!
I love how this has been addressed and you just ignore the harm on vulnerable youths and the fact that this feeds into gay persecution, but just present it as an argument you think you can win.
Did science say asbestos was good?
My understanding is science said that it was cheap and easy to manufacture.
The health concerns were undiscovered, not incorrect.
Did God create the sodomites too or was that a mistake? Oh hang on, sorry I just realised that it can’t be a mistake. It is actually the “delicate hand of God” that created the sodomites.
That’s probably why people say “oh my god” during sex ?
I apologise if anyone was offended by the above and can confirm that no animals were injured during the writing of this comment
Another fact that shows that those who love the "god of science" are wrong: for those who know the standard model of Physics: what would happen if the mass of the electron were 0.0000000000001% LESS? The atoms would never have formed and neither does the universe, because electrons would jump from their orbits. What would happen if the mass of the electrons were 0.0000000000001% GREATER? the electrons would make smaller and smaller trajectories until they were annihilated with the protons! neither the atoms nor the universe would have formed it! The physical constants are "delicately adjusted" to make this universe possible! The strong hand of God!
I agree with you! Science knows nothing! Even Darwin's theory of evolution is a hoax! I never explain why for 200 million years the fish remained fish and in just 5000 years they became amphibians (for example). There was only the micro-evolution or mini-adaptation not the macro-evolution! What scientific probability is there that the moon seen from the earth has an apparent diameter exactly equal to the sun seen from the earth? Are the relations diameters / distances identical? less than 0.000000000001%, was put there by GOD to make total eclipses!
The Flat Earth Theory is a pre-scientific concept and was proven wrong by science. But anyway you are right in a sense, science doesn't always get everything right straight away and some theories are discarded or revised, based on new work .
However, the overwhelm weight of evidence that we can see from the technological progress that we have made in the last couple of hundred years of science, is that scientific thinking has answers to the secrets of the universe that religion has never been able to provide. The Catholics like to use claims of miracles to prove the existance of God, but on that basis science completely trumps religion. The miracle that I am talking to you right now from a completely different geographical locality has nothing to do with a deity, science gave that to us.
The reality that so many people have a hard time accepting, because of religous brainwashing starting from childhood and because of fear of the unknown, is that religion is completely made up. To the extent that it provides people with comfort then it is benign and plenty of athiests wouldn't bother concerning ourselves with it, but when the likes of Folau express religious beliefs in a way that harms others then it needs to be called out for the complete sham that it is.
Science advised women to smoke to calm nerves and lose weight...Science invented many harmful chemicals...Tooo many to list...Science said Asbestos was good...Science said the world was flat...then changed its mind....Science can only make a decision based on the facts it knows.....Then science discovers a new fact...Both Science and religion require FAITH to believe in them.....
Logic tells us that we can be offended by a belief system that uses the threat of hell to emotionally blackmail, brainwash and exploit the vulnerable, even if we think that belief system is BS.
Logic tells me that you can't be offended by a god you don't believe or a book you haven't read. Logic tells me you can't call Christianity BS but in the same post claim someone is going to hell for having tattoos. Logic tells me it is your kind who are trying to ram your PC BS down everyone's throats.
If you want to be free to ram your BS religion down my throat then I must have the right to ram logic and science down yours.
There is no God there is only superstition and control and tax free money. Science has demonstrated that the universe is 13.8 billion years old not 6,500. Science teaches us there was no great flood.
Logic tells us that the sun was not created after three days because how could even a day have passed without a sun. Logic tells us that the sons of Adam and Eve had no girls from a nearby village to marry. Logic yells us that Christians who mistreat the poor are not followers of Jesus Christ.
Logic tells us that a God who creates people in his own image is far from perfect when he has to drown most of them for not living up to his expectations. Logic tells us that a God who has to waste almost half of his commandments on himself has problems with self-confidence.
PS Folau is going straight to Hell for his tattoos.
Timbo (L)
Roar Guru
You don't think that the orbit is determined by the size of the electron or that the size of the electron is dictated by the orbit?
Timbo (L)
Roar Guru
Science did nothing of the sort. That was done by marketing and lobby groups. The same type of people claiming that Climate change is a hoax to protect their interests in fossil fuels.
Purdo
Roar Rookie
The thing about science is that it DOES change its mind when the evidence demands that. The thing about religion is that it persists with false beliefs and calls that faith. I'd prefer freedom from religion to freedom of religion, but I guess we won't end religion anytime soon, and denying freedom of religion will just prolong the age of religious faith. If people are free to state their religious belief then others are free to argue against them. I've come to the belief that RA should have just said that IF's view were not supported by RA.
Gray-Hand
Roar Rookie
By that reasoning, a person of colour who does not believe in white supremacist ideology could not be offended by a skinhead telling them that they are inferior due to their racial background. Complete nonsense.
aussikiwi
Guest
So Ms Banerji just went down on her freedom of speech for public servants argument. The High Court has said a code which prohibits public servants from making anonymous comment about govt policy was lawful, and public servants could be sacked for breaching it. Its up on the HIgh Court website and most newsites. Bad news for the Folau camp. And for employees generally, but that horse had already bolted. Remains to be seen whether so called religious freedom will be given special treatment but I very much doubt it.
Malotru
Roar Rookie
My mistake Aussikiwi, unfortunately it appears to be a reality of life that most people are quick to find threats and offence. For that matter, judging by this blog there are a lot of people offended by IF's comments (I suspect there are many, even non-believers like me who aren't though). Denying people a point of view, however incorrect that may be, will not solve the issue. No doubt you would be mad as hell if your right to post/male comment was denied you.
aussikiwi
Guest
There is a big difference between feeling threatened by something and being offended by something. You conflate the two. Young gay Christians may well feel both offended and threatened by the news that they are going to hell for being gay. Some of them, sadly, still resort to conversion therapy to avoid eternal damnation. As an atheistic I feel offended by the needless denigration by Folau and others of a vulnerable group that has historically suffered horrendous discrimination. Meanwhile the religious right us out on the street trying to deny women the right to control their own bodies. Now that is threatening. I guess freedom is a one way street.
Malotru
Roar Rookie
Sorry Atheist, my logic tells me that it is irrational to feel threatened by something you don't believe in. Indeed I don't believe the nonsense about a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow, but nevertheless I can't help going looking for it.
Malotru
Roar Rookie
Interesting that The Roar has seen fit to lose the most recent article on Folau's legal action, but still has a months old piece about Ma'a Nonu's Tesla, featuring an astounding number of comments (two) the last of which was on May 1!
Train Without A Station
Roar Guru
I love how this has been addressed and you just ignore the harm on vulnerable youths and the fact that this feeds into gay persecution, but just present it as an argument you think you can win.
Train Without A Station
Roar Guru
Did science say asbestos was good? My understanding is science said that it was cheap and easy to manufacture. The health concerns were undiscovered, not incorrect.
ScottD
Roar Guru
Did God create the sodomites too or was that a mistake? Oh hang on, sorry I just realised that it can’t be a mistake. It is actually the “delicate hand of God” that created the sodomites. That’s probably why people say “oh my god” during sex ? I apologise if anyone was offended by the above and can confirm that no animals were injured during the writing of this comment
charly_777
Guest
Another fact that shows that those who love the "god of science" are wrong: for those who know the standard model of Physics: what would happen if the mass of the electron were 0.0000000000001% LESS? The atoms would never have formed and neither does the universe, because electrons would jump from their orbits. What would happen if the mass of the electrons were 0.0000000000001% GREATER? the electrons would make smaller and smaller trajectories until they were annihilated with the protons! neither the atoms nor the universe would have formed it! The physical constants are "delicately adjusted" to make this universe possible! The strong hand of God!
charly777
Guest
I agree with you! Science knows nothing! Even Darwin's theory of evolution is a hoax! I never explain why for 200 million years the fish remained fish and in just 5000 years they became amphibians (for example). There was only the micro-evolution or mini-adaptation not the macro-evolution! What scientific probability is there that the moon seen from the earth has an apparent diameter exactly equal to the sun seen from the earth? Are the relations diameters / distances identical? less than 0.000000000001%, was put there by GOD to make total eclipses!
Athiest
Guest
The Flat Earth Theory is a pre-scientific concept and was proven wrong by science. But anyway you are right in a sense, science doesn't always get everything right straight away and some theories are discarded or revised, based on new work . However, the overwhelm weight of evidence that we can see from the technological progress that we have made in the last couple of hundred years of science, is that scientific thinking has answers to the secrets of the universe that religion has never been able to provide. The Catholics like to use claims of miracles to prove the existance of God, but on that basis science completely trumps religion. The miracle that I am talking to you right now from a completely different geographical locality has nothing to do with a deity, science gave that to us. The reality that so many people have a hard time accepting, because of religous brainwashing starting from childhood and because of fear of the unknown, is that religion is completely made up. To the extent that it provides people with comfort then it is benign and plenty of athiests wouldn't bother concerning ourselves with it, but when the likes of Folau express religious beliefs in a way that harms others then it needs to be called out for the complete sham that it is.
Tander
Guest
Science advised women to smoke to calm nerves and lose weight...Science invented many harmful chemicals...Tooo many to list...Science said Asbestos was good...Science said the world was flat...then changed its mind....Science can only make a decision based on the facts it knows.....Then science discovers a new fact...Both Science and religion require FAITH to believe in them.....
Athiest
Guest
Logic tells us that we can be offended by a belief system that uses the threat of hell to emotionally blackmail, brainwash and exploit the vulnerable, even if we think that belief system is BS.
In brief
Guest
Logic tells me that you can't be offended by a god you don't believe or a book you haven't read. Logic tells me you can't call Christianity BS but in the same post claim someone is going to hell for having tattoos. Logic tells me it is your kind who are trying to ram your PC BS down everyone's throats.
Ai Ruisheng
Guest
If you want to be free to ram your BS religion down my throat then I must have the right to ram logic and science down yours. There is no God there is only superstition and control and tax free money. Science has demonstrated that the universe is 13.8 billion years old not 6,500. Science teaches us there was no great flood. Logic tells us that the sun was not created after three days because how could even a day have passed without a sun. Logic tells us that the sons of Adam and Eve had no girls from a nearby village to marry. Logic yells us that Christians who mistreat the poor are not followers of Jesus Christ. Logic tells us that a God who creates people in his own image is far from perfect when he has to drown most of them for not living up to his expectations. Logic tells us that a God who has to waste almost half of his commandments on himself has problems with self-confidence. PS Folau is going straight to Hell for his tattoos.
Doug Graves
Guest
Done in one. Mods feel free to close the comments.