Phil Kearns reckons the Jaguares should not be in Super Rugby

I think that, appealing as it is, in the final analysis your idea ends up in some sort of dilusion of SR. B/c, for the toppers of the weakest conferences (South America and Pacific Islands), while very easy to win against them, it would also automatically bring lacklustre to the champions; whose fanbase and Unions would ultimately voice the "need" to get rid of the weakest conferences. Also, imagine going to play rugby at 4000 mts above sea level in Bolivia. I am all for a reorganisation of rugby calendars (NH & SH), so the different competitions can be a little shorter; and then perhaps we could squeeze in some very short comp like the one you're saying. Still, SR champs would complain anyway of having to play worse teams (South America and Pacific Islands) for the sake of some TV station.

Maybe Super Rugby could be a vehicle to create a champions league style provincial tournament. Multiple tiers across asia pacific and southern hemisphere with promotion relegation into a top league of elite teams. Obviously geographies would need to be considered. And eligibility issues. And perhaps the national team v provincial team concept needs refining.

Danny, we're still very far from that (I'm an Argie). From memory, all the South Americans teams except Argentina, are in Tier 3, 4 or worst. The only one coming in Tier 3 is Uruguay. B/c of this huge difference in level, Argentina has been and will be lining up the C team (Argentina XV). In the near future, we'll perhaps see a 2nd Argie team with a mix from non-Buenos Aires clubs, and the added gift of +/- 5 Argie players per team to play for Uruguay, Chile, Brazil, Paraguay, and Colombia (that makes 20 Argies playing for 5 different countries). So we can all see that Argentina is doing everything she can (with her very limited means, part due to the traditional shambolic state of the economy, and partly due to the fierce traditional resistance from the Argie amateur clubs to ever get any near whatever reeks of professionalism) to launch the future South American conference (that will have to wait a few years still though). At the moment, it's just the very young South American Championship, with the national sides. A South American conference (with clubs and/or franchises) is still many years behind reaching the level of the Pacific Islands, let alone the SR15; but that will come in due time (15-20 years?). A very good website chokeful of hot news in English is the official ARC page, there everyone is welcome to have a feeling of how things are currently evolving and what are the ideas being floated. In the meantime, we do have the Americas Rugby Championship (ARC), lining up the national sides of the USA, Canada, Argentina, and some others well below the aforementioned big three. Only last year, if I remember well, the USA Eagles managed to grab the ARC for the 1st time in their history, while all the previous ARCs had been won by Argentina.

This is the 4th season for the Jaguares. Have the Pumas improved from 1 win per year in the RC? Yes, two wins last year.

I think the main issue at the moment is that Argentina probably has a few more test quality players than what's required for one team but, at this point, not enough to justify another new franchise. I don't know that not allowing foreign players is the criteria. You could have half a dozen non test representative local players in the run on side and still not be considered a national side as well. But I strongly agree with your point re: having two Argentinean feeder sides in SR. The trouble is, while it would mean less travel for them, it would mean more for everyone else. If development elsewhere were strong enough we could potentially see a couple of Argentinean teams in an Americas conference with several teams from the US, Canada and perhaps eventually Uruguay & Brazil (though they would probably be close to national teams too). I think we are a fair way off that just yet though and, from what I have read, the US is perhaps concentrating more on setting up their own domestic competition. Still, if you follow through the 12 nations cup thing logically, then you could argue that the US, Argentina, Japan (or Fiji) would need a number of teams under each of them playing in a high level provincial championship to ensure that, when they come into the 12 nations games, their players have been developed in a system where they are regularly playing against high level opposition, so perhaps an expanded (or separate conference) in SR would be justified on that basis. The problem for Argentina then would be that they are probably substantially stronger than anyone else in an Americas conference and wouldn't be getting those regular challenges from NZ/SA and AUS teams.

I think it absolutely is the wrong idea. But because the Puma's essentially playing Super Rugby together will hurt their national team rather than improve. I think playing weaker teams (than test sides) will drag them down as a team.

Aleveca. I think that you are also missing an important point. The Pacific Islanders actuationlly play a lot of rugby and are physically very strong. This is one reason that they have integrated very well to the NZ/AU rugby world. Argentina has immigration from Bolivia, Paraguay, Uruguay, and some now from Peru/Venezuela. These countries are traditionally non rugby playing and physically they are rather smaller. I don't think you will find many Bolivians of 2 meters height and 120 kilos that can run with agility. I bet that if you did, they would have been in the Pumas sooner rather than later. By the way, the French prop son of a former Pumas did not make it to the final team for the U-20 tournament.

Still, I find the use of the word hoodwink laughable… as if it weren’t SANZAAR’s request to field a Jaguares side. One which we complied to willingly, at the cost of having weaker Pumas for 2/3 years. After all, winning the RC was not in the near future plans.

Well… If it weren’t for the Salta 2nd half meltdown (or, the Wallabies first half meltdown had continued further, or Sanchez injury), we would have finish with a record 3 wins last year ( and a wooden spoon to Australia, to the greater pleasure of Cheika-haters). It is true that since the Jaguares inclusion in SR, RC results have not improved—and a lot of people were crying wolf after the 2017 doughnut—, and more worryingly June and November tour outcomes have not improved either. A lot of commentators (say, on ESPN) and keyboard-warriors alike have blamed this on the lack of competition/the NZ-like selection policy, and of course mental/physical fatigue… and some even ventured that joining SR was a wrong idea (we are so desperate to fit with you guys, that we even run to complain about the same things!)

I love Australian rugby although I detest when they are doing better than us (Saffas). Still, I grant them that. This guy does not seem to believe that other nations could be as good as Australia. For what it is worth they are giving us Saffas a kick in the arse in our own conference despite their obviously troublesome travel burden. Yes, they are passionate, yes, they are spanish speaking (Castellano perhaps?). I lived in Paraguay for 4 years and my experience from Paraguay, Argentina, Uruguay and Brazil were nothing less than spectacular. The people are amazing even though it may not appear that way on screen I bet most of the Argie players are pretty down to earth folk. I am glad the Jaguares are doing so well. Yes, they probably need to have a second team at some point, for their own sake though, not for anyone else's.

It does not value the effort of all Argentina. They are many years of effort and suffer the contempt of the great teams. Jaguars prove to be level and did not fail like Japan with foreign players The Jaguars have a salary equal to that of a Wallavies assistant. Rugby in Argentina is amateur

He does the job for Pichot first.

'...if they can beat the Hurricanes at home, they clearly have the depth for at least two teams while remaining competitive'. Seriously? Take a break and reload mate.

Fair nuff. I suspect Pichot might outstay his welcome with lots of people before too long, he does the job for Argentina rather than the common good.

The former Wallabies captain Phil Kearns say : ‘Argentina have hoodwinked SANZAAR’: Wallabies great calls for Jaguares to be kicked out of Super Rugby" I thought that the powerful Wallabies enjoyed competing in Rugby! In the past when the old Pumas lost with the Wallabies by more than 40 points was "nice to play against us"? Now that the game is more even, they want to condemn us to go back to the 1970s? In South America the second team of Argentina wins any country for more than 60 points! Changing the championship so that there are fewer trips should not mean throwing anyone! As soon as this great tournament is over, we must call Europe: imhoff, Cordero, sanchez, isa, Urdapilleta, Herrera, Montero, Mensa, that is, 54% of the Pumas team that is in Europe! The Jaguars are only 46% of the Pumas!

It's almost funny but mostly inaccurate. Funny that up until now that they are winning he didn't feel the need to comment on the matter. Inaccurate in the sense that Jaguares, as part of being accepted, were supposed to play the best available players. Having said that, Pumas will most likely have 5 players coming from Europe and 3 that already confirmed will be migrating after the RWC. I firmly believe Jags participation was both good for rugby in Argentina in particular and for Super Rugby and the Rugby Championship in general.

Australian and NZ teams have taken advantage of SR teams with great number of national players playing together in their lines, while Argentina was struggling gathering a team of players from very diverse European countries (different styles, not playing together, etc). Now some people do not want to see Pumas players who play together in a team...totally unfair.

Hiring a couple of Argentinean players might be the solution for the tags. Just saying...

Don’t argue with me. Tell Sanzaar and Pichot.

Money and internal politics.