The Roar
The Roar

Rhys Bosley

Roar Pro

Joined September 2018

66.6k

Views

24

Published

1.2k

Comments

Published

Comments

If Super Rugby was in such a decline and leaving players in need of development, the Northern Unions wouldn’t pay the big dollars for those players at all. Rather England, France and Japan would draw on their own large populations to mam their teams and nobody else would get a look in. Furthermore the World Cup tally would not be 7/1 in favour of the South.
Australian players get poached because of the quality of our competions and player development, undermine that by relaxing Giteau”s law and we will end up as also rans like Argentina.

The Wrap: Giteau’s Law must survive, but with a twist

Good article Geoff. Those who say Australia can be good at rugby again without strong provinces that keep good players for extended periods of time, are either full of it or have been fooled by those who are. South Africa has always been a stronger rugby nation than Australia, they are more likely to be having success despite the number of players overseas, not because of them. If Australia succumbs to that path we will more likely end up like Argentina than South Africa, also rans. As you allude to, we have to fight to maintain a strong professional rugby presence in Australia, with our last breath

The Wrap: Giteau’s Law must survive, but with a twist

A free market means a market free from government interference, so if we reduce rugby to just being a business as so many want to, then Giteaus rule is still justified. Rugby Australia and the state unions are not governments, they are private entities that have the same right to seek terms that are advantageous to them, if one of those terms is Giteaus rule then so be it.

The Wrap: Giteau’s Law must survive, but with a twist

“This will attract more high performing young athletes to our sport.”

I highly doubt it. If that was the case the Australian basketball teams would be attracting all the lanky kids with good hand/eye coordination before the AFL can sign them, and sending them off to the US for the much higher pay packets that the NBA offers.

The Wallabies should ban Hockings and Lucas for life

Sorry Olly but I think that in the case of professional sportspeople who are amongst the most highly privileged young people in Australia, a different standard can rightfully be applied. The players in question will still be taking home substantial pay packets for 21 year olds for the next six months and beyond that have plenty of time to make big money in Rugby after that, after which they have their entire lives to do something else. They can afford to stay where they are and contribute to the community in this time of difficulty, even if it is only to boost morale, and that is what I think they should do.

The Wallabies should ban Hockings and Lucas for life

As I have said on a number of occasions on this thread, I don’t have a problem with players like Kerevi who have given good service, seeking more money somewhere else. My only problem is with players like Lucas, Hocking and Campbell who accept the investment in their development, then leave without a reasonable length of service.

And I DO think supporters via the national and state unions, have the right to demand action on this. It is ultimately our money and for many their time volunteering that creates these people’s opportunities. The unions should be using whatever leverage they can with the players to, to represent our interests.

The Wallabies should ban Hockings and Lucas for life

It has potentially hurt the Reds a lot. After a lot of hard work and the Coronovirus they are finally in a position to get some succeed and bring back the crowds, and three key players go and do this? I don’t think what is proposed is harsh at all under those circumstances.

The Wallabies should ban Hockings and Lucas for life

It means what it says, professionalism isn’t just about money. Doctors, lawyers, nurses, teachers, engineers all have professional obligations which they are obliged to follow, even if it costs them an opportunity. If sportspeople want to call themselves professional, they should accept that there are similar obligations expected of them. Giving a bit back to the game that made them isn’t going too cost them their great future and isn’t too much to ask.

The Wallabies should ban Hockings and Lucas for life

Like I have said elsewhere, I have no problem with players like Giteau being bought back. He was a stalwart for many years and deserved his Wallabies spot in 2015.

I don’t even have a problem with the likes of Kerevi leaving, he had given four years, sat on a mediocre contract for a year until Cooper, Hunt and Slipper were off the books, and at tue end of it I don’t think RA recognised his value early enough. Hence he took the million dollar a year contract and I don’t blame him.

My only application of the rule would be to the likes of Lucas, Hocking and Magnay, who use the clubs for training then chase the money without making a contribution. I favour a strict rule so that nobody can pull the will over their eyes as to the consequences of their decision. Had that already been in place, perhaps we might not be in this situation.

The Wallabies should ban Hockings and Lucas for life

We aren’t but that is because most of us have done exactly as Rah Rah said, pulled together, followed the rules and stopped the virus spreading. Look at the nearly 100k dead in the US and you can see that this could have been as bad as the Blitz. That is why people are so sensitive to displays of selfishness, those with a more libertarian mindset are going to have to get used to the change in social norms, because it is here to stay.

The Wallabies should ban Hockings and Lucas for life

So no backup for your conjecture then. Glad we settled that.

The Wallabies should ban Hockings and Lucas for life

But if RA have leverage with Wallabies caps, why shouldn’t they use it to get the outcome they want? Negotiation is a two way street, I don’t get what people don’t understand about that.

The Wallabies should ban Hockings and Lucas for life

“Oh calm down! Some people have not been doing that at all.”

Fixed if for you. The old question asked to stupid children comes to mind,

“Would you jump off cliff because he did”?

The Wallabies should ban Hockings and Lucas for life

If we were talking about the many thousands of people in ordinary jobs who are currently out of work, I would be the first to agree with you. Of course, we are not.

The Wallabies should ban Hockings and Lucas for life

“Is that the premise for junior sport, we teach you specific skills and you’re indebted to us for X years. Does it mean if the guys who don’t make it to the state level where they can earn a living can sue those feeder clubs & coaches for their failure to meet that undertaking.”

A bit if a silly hypothetical really. Most people play junior sport for it’s own sake and that is all it will ever be, but if an athlete makes a motza from it it isn’t too much to expect that he give something back.

As for Rugby Union, it has survived that hundred years despite competition from League being run purely on commercial grounds. You note that I say commercial and not professional, there is a difference. Professionals have standards that sometimes precludes them from chasing every last dollar, those are the players we want in rugby. Sneer about that if you like, but I think you will find that plenty agree with me.

The Wallabies should ban Hockings and Lucas for life

The article makes that assumption based on what Picone said. If the players don’t value a Wallabies jersey, why would he even bother mentioning it in his statement? Even if money is the primary motivator an international player will earn more overseas once capped, so the prospect of losing the opportunity to earn one should give players pause for thought.

The Wallabies should ban Hockings and Lucas for life

Mate, your argument is just conjecture. Show me the relevant case law or statute and tell me how it applies in this instance, and I might take your argument seriously. In the meantime I will remain confident that given that RA already does establish Wallabies eligibility requirements, that they are able to do so.

The Wallabies should ban Hockings and Lucas for life

“It’s the franchise’s responsibility, coaches and support staff to extract maximum value from the players in their employment.”

Correct and if RA has to place restrictions on who can be a Wallaby to help the franchise extract that value, then they should.

The Wallabies should ban Hockings and Lucas for life

All of those players left by choice or were moved on after being given a fair go, it is in no way equivalent to what Hockings and Lucas have done. And the fact is that you work for your employer because they pay you, not the other way around, which means that you have to be meeting their objectives to justify staying with them.

The Wallabies should ban Hockings and Lucas for life

I am bemused by all these grave comments about how it is a professional sport and how players are entitled to seek the best living, yet Queensland and Australian rugby aren’t entitled to seek the best value for training programs that are clearly internationally recognised. These players fight for development and Wallabies spots because it is worth their while to do so, we should be driving s harder bargain to sort the wheat from the chaff. We have had a decade of failure pandering to naturally talented flakes, yet people seem to just want more of the same. It is weird.

The Wallabies should ban Hockings and Lucas for life

Hockings is a starter for the Reds, Lucas isn’t and I would like to see him fight to be. Picone’s statement suggests to me that he may be telling his clients that they still have a long term shot at the Wallabies if they go overseas. I want to see that notion buried, if nothing else to make the players think twice before leaving.

The Wallabies should ban Hockings and Lucas for life

Upon what basis are they going to take RA to CAS, if they don’t have an RA contract? And do you really think they are going to sign a Super Rugby contract without a topup, on the hope that RA changes it’s policy?/

The Wallabies should ban Hockings and Lucas for life

Nah, not because he is the biggest loss, it is just my perception based on public statements, observations and circumstance. I agree that we don’t know everything, hence the need to give him the benefit of the doubt.

The Wallabies should ban Hockings and Lucas for life

Nope, it was a different discussion and irrelevant to this one.

The Wallabies should ban Hockings and Lucas for life

Not really, I used a personal anecdote to clearly illustrate how many young people in the past and today, deal with reasonable expectations in a responsible manner and face consequences if they don’t. The same should be expected of footballers.

The Wallabies should ban Hockings and Lucas for life