The PM, the Lions and AFL in Brisbane

I just want to throw my lot in (or put up my tent as Andrew Voss euthemises ;) ) on the issue of two clubs per town theory. It was not actually the original intention of the Football League for there to be two teams per town and Liverpool/ Manchester United were not originally welcome in the Football League by their naysayers. London was shunned entirely. West Bromwich Albion and Wolverhampton Wolves (particularly at the behest of Aston Villa was allowed to join, making Birmingham's tally an astonishing three) However the lack of a desire to represent population demographics led to towns with dosh like Blackburn/Burnley getting a top flight team. Reminds me a bit of the Super League War and in fact Super League in Yorkshire and Lanchasire today. Actually come to think of it the Guiness Premiership (Top RU) as well. Plenty of clubs at plenty of diff levels, but a focus on United type clubs to generate money. Not sure about the viability of two-team dynamics tho. Everton/Liverpool and MU/MC are very rare exceptions, as Wolverhampton and West Brom and Birmingham City later were always weaker/poorer cousins I love the idea of every outer team (ie outside of Victoria) getting two derby games a year...anyway my point is that derbies were not a real concern for the founders of the Football League, but time has increased their value. My other point is most often they've been artifically engineered (ie by renaming the club), which is something that a history-oriented person like me struggles to countenance.

Rugby League NEVER claims to be or refers itself as a 'National' Sport. Vicball is as much 'National' in Australia as Ice-Hockey is on Brazil.

49% or 564,000 dont count eh? :-) How often does Sydney provide half or more of the NRL ratings? Based on your logic, research and bias you wont like the answer. ;-) Redb

heh, heh - that last point is quite funny.

We have been asking a question since arriving at this forum. Has the AFL expansion in QLD affected the QLD Rugby Union structure such as grassroots growth. Has this led in turn to the mixed performances of the QLD Reds team. In 2001 the AFL released the Carter report which said pour millions long term into QLD and NSW. Which the AFL has and will continue to do. Starting with a very low total AFL base of 37,244 in 2001 after 100 years of some neglect from various footy bosses. 2006 - Doubled to 74,622 2008 - up to 97,917 Obviously has increased again in 2009 due to AFL that saying that total Aust participation up again by 35,000 or so of over record levels of 2008 of which QLD will have a share. Any QLD Rugby Union followers care to comment on their codes figures etc. Yes we know that Rugby League and Soccer football codes are very healthy at all levels - Just would like an answer from the RU mob.

The Crushers were the second brisbane team in super league. Yes the rivalry is states mainly for league, s.o.o made sure of that. Gcoast are Brisbanes rival for all codes, the 2 cities compete very nicely, and are far enough apart not to start a war.

Pretty good result for the AFL although the margins were 7pts in the AFL game and 15pts in the RU. This is not exaclty normal. If Brisbane had towelled Carlton by 80 pts whilst the Wallabies won by 1pt the results might be different. As far as two teams in a city goes its interesting there has never been a 2nd RL team in Brisbane. I think AFL & Futbol have more tradition in regards to derbies, possibly because of the strong NSW v QLD in RL. Certainly with the AFL I think GC/WS are more about gaining new audiences rather than creating a derby. If they were after rivalry they would put in Tassie. Having said that the derby has pretty much been Freo's biggest thing in their whole 15 years, seems like every year is a bad one for them

I dont know about AFL M.C, but in league you have a wooden spoon, this keeps the games lively, well it has this year in league. Nobody wants that item. As for growing in 1 city or the other, hopefully by now you have your rivalries, Brisbane has Manly, Storm, Cowboys, GCoast, Dragons, Ells, do i go on, we dont need a shirty team in Brisbane to get in our way, no the real growth is all teams becoming strong enough so your market becomes the world. Keep that in mind when i said that AFL is going to bog iteself down with a Sydney Gcoast push. The NRL are out their selling their product to larger audience. Why do you think gallop does not want to worry about having more teams, he has the perfect product to sell. If we could let a couple of sydney teams go, would be ideal.

I think their are many things that can be improved for all codes. AFL just needs to keep building on their international series and stay out of it. At least they can grow the game without the knowleadge that oz will win. Soccer needs to get rid of the word friendlies, call them angry's. Union needs to get rid of the super 15 and get a oz comp going, its becoming boring watching 3 countries play and then watch 3 countries play again, but under the guise 3 nations, or bledisloe. We have just witnessed this in the super 15.-14 League, rugby that is, just needs to stop trying to compete with all these other codes. You 3 can fight it out amounst yourselves. Cheers.

How right you are Andyroo. Cheers.

National TV ratings alf - 1,140,000 576,000 - melbourne One city provide MORE than half [51%] the national total......... Vicball the 'national' game....only if you live in a postcode that starts with a 3.

Pretty much. I now prefer to watch my lower division suburban comp (the HAL) as a result. But I think the AFL model of Two teams in a city is the one to follow and seems to fit with the English Football experience too Spurs and Arsenal (both North london) Fremantle and Perth Everton and Liverpool Adelaide and Port Manchester Utd and Man City I think the Titans coming in have helped the Broncos and a second team in Brisbane would actually help them in the long run. It just gives so much more news to talk about and you have a game in the city every week as well as twice the chance of a team beeing in the finals. Titans vs Broncos will be huge this week. I think Rugby in NSW would benefit from West Sydney vs the Tahs and Penrith vs Parramatta in the NRL is huge when both teams are doing well

True Tah. What pray tell was Kev doing in the Wallas dressing shed?

I thought there was only 4 teams in the EPL, Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal and ? another one, the rest are only making up the numbers aren't they. :)

Well yes, London has a 10 million population, but what i was saying is that is how they got so big. By being ultra competitive with other cities. One team , one city produces these sorts of clashes, look at the broncos, Melbounre Storm clashes. Even Storm, Warrior clashes are becoming a little feisty. And on the back of this, you grow a following for these events.

Yes,no, i am talking about your average season figures, without finals. The reason i say this, because it is what makes the games look at their best. Just a guideline i use for the 2 codes. Cheers.

Football in the Uk has a lot of teams in each city though. Manchester and Liverpool both have two in the EPL. London has approx 1 million teams (approx 5 in the EPL).

Going back to your 1st post M.C , having 1 team for a city is a huge bonus for any comps. This is how football UK became the golaith it is today. Brisbane is well placed in these markets with the codes because they dont bare the burdon of having a city with lots of teams. The broncos are a powerhouse in this sense, also the lions if you look at it that way, because they can draw huge crowds all the time by not being burdoned with losing teams. You must have a winning culture for this to happen,, these 2 teams have this at the momment. I nearly had kittens when i thought the broncos were not going to make the finals this year. The other 2 teams, Reds and Roar, have not done enough homework on building this culture for their Brisbane teams. Its a bit like Man U in soccer, that city thrives on their winning culture, god help them if this ever changed. :) Probably wont, they have no such thing as a salary cap. At least in oz we are smart enough to have one, keep the codes alive.