The real Crawford Report exposed!

Oh is that what you were saying Pip ;) Yeah then I definitely agree as how much does the Boxing Day test actually earn for the MCG as opposed to 28 plus games of AFL footy. But maybe the title of Michael C's thread should have been MCG the house that the AFL subsidised :)

ah Jbro, at least give us credit that we HAVEN'T conscripted in our friends to boost the numbers!!! Most AFL fans i reckon just can't be bothered. btw - I haven't really suggested anywhere that the AFL deserves more, however, I don't believe that they DON'T deserve more. However, I'm quite proud of the AFL's ability to generate revenue and run a pretty good ship. Relatively speaking. You don't want to be a welfare run organisation. The AFL works pretty well on major projects, probably better than most - but, invariably are pumping their own funds in along the way. However - if money is to be channelled to the AFL's direct competitors.......well.....just as Holden would be annoyed if Ford got a major cash injection that Holden didn't get an equivalent benefit in some shape or form. And that's only fair too.

Jaredsbro I don't disagree with any of that - but some appear to have trouble accepting that aussie rules pays the bills (as far as the MCG is concerned).

No I'm not arguing with you, but I'm saying that the MCG's history is one of multi-sporting (largely cricket and Australian Football) legacies. I'm sure you also understand that it is as much a cathedral of cricket as it is for footy (tho you don't hear people say it's the home of Australian cricket etc). One of those sports holds a truly National cultural currency, but seems to be losing spectators at its biggest games while the opposite seems to be the case for Australian footy. All I'm saying is obviously there are people who don't agree. And ignorant w@nkers tho they may be, there is no denying the MCG has a lot more cultural currency than just as the home of football. To sum up I guess there's more than one definition of popularity and thus there must be more than one standard of measuring the value of a specific stadia to the memories they create. I think I said this on another thread but most sites of sporting excellence tend to be locations where just one sport is played, the MCG was never that so it needs to be classed in another category from say Lord's. In fact I reckon the English definition of great sports arenas is universally the one-sport kind, which just shows you the mysogyny towards multi-sports like yourself and me :D

Jaredsbro I'm not sure what you are referring to. All I'm saying is that there is a very good reason why the MCG has had a capacity of 100,000+ for more than 50 years, and why Lords struggles to maintain a ground with a capacity of only 20,000.

C'mon you're just re-packaging the Sydney v Melbourne thing Pip. Melbourne is very different to Sydney but you're still both very sporting cities, not like good old Hamilton (in NZ that is, yeah you know the place between Lance Hohaia's home town of Huntly and Te Awamutu, home town of our Finn Brothers ;) ) The AFL is very important to Australia's culture but it is not the only code that is played in Melbourne and it will not ever be the only code played in Sydney, there's too many different ethnicities/cultural cross-polination for that. For you see AFL's greatest chest of talent is actually the fatal flaw which is prevent AFL from dominating while Football is the sport of the people. You just seem to believe the old story that because it's a great sport and because Aussie rules has built such a great sporting Cathedral that we should all be grateful. Well I am, but I'd much rather see footy matches beside the Yarra personally! There's nothing wrong with what you're doing (obviously) for the crowd's you get to the G, but why does 'AFL' have to dominate, it's not like we owe it our total loyalty...that's not how democracy works.

Now to have Netball underfunded is a travesty given its nigh on national popularity among Males and Females (in spectating anyway!) but let's not throw the baby out with the codliver oil :P

Or Dublin mind you. Following that line of logic anyway ;) Yeah I appreciate what you guys do, but until other AFL fans come here (hint: ring your friends, maybe their grandmas will turn up in force :) ) being defensive is about all you can do. The real joy of this website is the opportunity of cross-polination, in my case actually getting to engage with Australian Football(s) fans and having meaningful discussion cum debate So what do you say AFL deserves more rights due to the higher proportion of participation Auskick included ;) I don't know. It seems fair on the one hand, but then again...thinking about it from the minority side of things? Who can tell someone whose hard core into Archery that they need to fight uphill just to start making some investments pay for themselves. Basically if you apply this logic to Aussie rules as it was starting up they too would've had to have played by these highly unfair rules too and what Cricket would say is you're not really playing a game of National Importance (where their logic is that only English sports deserve government funding (if the Govt funded sports in those days ;) ) as that which is of national importance, just like that which is of the people keeps a-changing The trick is making it financially accountable without expecting the same sports to have the same standard of 'National Importance' or financial/sporting payoff

Hey what about giving me some credit Michael - I am the ultimate example of someone ‘using’ theRoar for the right reasons and in the right way. The b@stard who keeps the b@stards who keep all the other b@stards honest :)

Jaredsbro - hmmm, as certain people have illustrated.....there's a bunch of complete ignorants out there,........and if a couple of us AFL fans weren't here to attempt to do the Democrats thing (keep the b@stards honest), then it's be an anti AFL free for all with an AFL tab NOT used for the right reasons. Would you prefer that?? Everyone needs to look at AndyRoo as an example of someone 'using' theRoar for the right reasons and in the right way. Intelligent discussion. intelligent questioning, exploring issues. Learning. We, Redb, Pip and myself will happily admit the AFL ain't perfect, BUT, it ain't on it's own, and at least it's our own 'imperfect' admin/game to deal with rather than being dictated to by some office in Switzerland, or London or Dubai......

Jimbo - you're posting this comment on the wrong thread. btw - your comment is ludicrous, AFL supporters heading to the MCG, now, IF it were a stand alone rail line and IF the funding of it were based 86% upon the revenue generated from the patronage of those folk, then - yes, you could suggest that they had effectively paid for said item of infrastructure. a nearer example might be the little rail line into Flemington Race Course and showgrounds....however, people aren't charged a premium compared to normal rail travel for that service - - however, it could still perhaps be suggested that it's the spur line built for the VRC, paid by the VRC but owned by the state. Perhaps???

jimbo have you ever stopped to ask yourself how we've been able to maintain a 100,000+ capacity stadium for over 50 years? Why a bigger city than Melbourne, like Sydney has always had a cricket ground with a fraction of the capacity? Why Lords struggles to maintain a ground with 20% the capacity of the MCG? Have you ever wondered why? I'll give you the answer if you really want to know it.

Pip, You’re joking - seriously. I did have a look (and a good laugh) at MC’s article about AFL paying for the MCG. AFL also paid for roads and trains and trams in Melbourne because all the AFL supporters use and patronise them to get to AFL games. They paid for all the toilets in pubs, becaue they use them a lot too. Lets not stop there – AFL is the game that made Australia. Who needs politics or religion – lets all just play AFL. Beaver, That’s not my poem and if you can’t recognise the song lyrics, well . . . Redb, you guys are the heavyweights of AFL bias . . .

JImbo MC has written a very good article on who pays for the MCG: http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/12/04/the-mighty-mcg/ please read it and educate yourself. I can only quote the independent Crawford report again just in case you missed it the first time: both archery and water polo receive more government funding than far more popular sports like netball, cricket and aussie rules.

Jimbo , i guess you wont be happy till every one plays soccer. Good for you, classic smell the fear mate, looking at your rediculous poem/post.

"the AFL does not receive a cracker from Government. " Somewhere over the rainbow Way up high There's an AFL land that I heard of once in a lullaby Somewhere over the rainbow Skies are blue And the dreams that you dare to dream really do come true Someday I'll wish upon a star And wake up where the clouds are far behind me Where troubles melt like lemon drops A way above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me Somewhere over the rainbow Pink pigs fly Pink pigs fly over the rainbow Why then oh why can't I? If happy little pink pigs fly beyond the AFL rainbow Then why oh why can't I? MC, the Federal govt doesn't give out funding by market segment, state by state or by gender. Since the 90s football has been the highest participation code and continues to grow at a rate of about 8% every year.

Is it easier for you guys (RedB, MC and Pip) to argue for Aussie rules because you're so outnumbered on this site or are you guys paid evangelists for Aussie rules :P And yes I am aware this is the AFL section of the Roar but you're getting awfully defensive. And no AFL has less right to funding and so does the NRL because as I understand it the point about Representative Govt is that it's about protecting the rights of the minority. Of course those rights must be mutually agreed upon by Govt's constituents ie the tax-paying residents and the non tax-paying citizens ;)

"Whereas AFL and the NRL are bankrolled to the tune of hundreds of millions every year already." by whom??? I'm sure you're not implying via government. ironic - that the one football code that actually IS bankrolled (i.e. direct cash injections into their bank account to go towards operational expenses) is soccer (the FFA). btw - re participation rates - - you need to segment it - - state by state, gender by gender. Remember, soccer isn't 'number one' in very many states.....perhaps NSW? for women?

The Crawford report says in black and white that obscure sports like archery and water polo get far, far more money than popular sports netball cricket and AFL. As I have said many, many times on the Roar, the AFL does not receive a cracker from Government - Crawford's independent report proves that point.