Tiger time is coming, but not in 2016

By Josh / Expert

Over the past few years Richmond have regularly been talked up as a premiership possibility, as success-starved Tigers fans grow ever hungrier for a return to the very top of the AFL competition.

Recently a number of Roarers have shared their opinions on the Tigers, saying that they can be a top four team in 2016, or that they can win the flag.

Tigers fans might be disheartened to learn that I don’t think the side is capable of winning or even contesting the grand final in 2016.

But, I do believe the potential for that success exists within this current group, and might not be that much further away.

There’s a good chance that in some high school English class you once heard the saying that every good story has a beginning, a middle, and end. The same is true of AFL premiership teams.

What I mean by this is that an AFL team is mostly likely to be flag-capable when it has a strong distribution of talent across three groups of players: those at the beginning of their careers, those in the middle, and those nearing the end.

To assess Richmond’s premiership hopes I compared the age profile of their best 22 to that of the premiership teams of this decade, 2011-2015.

Establishing a club’s best 22 is something that’s very subjective so I’ve tried to go the most objective method possible, compiling the 22 players who featured in the most games for the club last year, with one exception – trade recruit Chris Yarran replacing retiree Chris Newman.

This method leaves the likes of Ben Lennon and Reece Conca out of the squad, though their inclusion could be debated, and the same goes for Sam Lloyd who was tied with Kane Lambert on number of games – I went with Lambert as he made the elimination final team while Lloyd did not.

Player ages have been determined as the age the player was on January 1 of the year in question, and the best 22 for the other teams examined here has been taken from the 22 players selected in their grand final-winning sides.

Average age of best 22
2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016
Geelong Sydney Hawthorn Hawthorn Hawthorn Richmond
27 26.2 26.5 26.6 27.6 26.1

In terms of average age of players in the 22, the numbers look pretty good for the Tigers. They’re a little younger than the premiership teams of the decade, but certainly close to the pack.

It’s worth pointing out right now that the Hawthorn 2015 flag team is a significant outlier – they were oldest premiership team in history, at least until Hawthorn win the flag again this year.

However while the average age of Richmond compared to recent premiership sides may seem fairly similar, the side differs significantly in terms of what the individual ages of the players who make up that average actually are.

To look at this in closer detail I separated the players in each listed side into three broad categories, the beginning of the career (18-23), the middle of the career (24-29), and the end (30+).

Of course, players follow different trajectories – but I think those categories can be broadly said to define the typical career arch of your average 150-200 game player.

Individual ages of best 22
Year Team Beginning Middle End
2011 Geelong 5 10 7
2012 Sydney 6 11 5
2013 Hawthorn 4 14 4
2014 Hawthorn 5 11 6
2015 Hawthorn 1 15 6
Premiership Average 4.2 12.2 5.6
2016 Richmond 3 17 2

Where Richmond differ significantly from this decade’s premiership teams is that their current squad is almost entirely drawn from the mid-career group, with very little representation from the beginning or end groups.

Every premiership team from 2011 to 2015 has had an established veteran core of players aged 30+. The 2011 Cats had the likes of Matthew Scarlett, Brad Ottens, Corey Enright, Paul Chapman and Cameron Ling. The 2012 Swans Adam Goodes, Jude Bolton, Rhyce Shaw and Ryan O’Keefe. In the last three years, the Hawks have had Brian Lake, Shaun Burgoyne, Sam Mitchell, Luke Hodge and Josh Gibson.

The Tigers on the other hand have only two players entering 2016 in the 30+ category, Ivan Maric and Troy Chaplin. To compare them in number or quality to those listed above is laughable.

At the other end of the scale, this decade’s premiership teams have all had strong youth representation – with the slight exception of Hawthorn 2015, who are something of a special case as both the oldest premiership team in history. Of course, their 2015 win was the continuation of a dynasty that began two years earlier with a team then boasting a strong youth contingent.

The Cats in 2011 had in the 23-and-under contingent the likes of Joel Selwood, Tom Hawkins, Allen Christensen and Mitch Duncan. The 2012 Swans had Daniel Hannebery, Luke Parker and Lewis Jetta. The Hawks across their three flags featured the likes of Jack Gunston, Luke Breust, Liam Shiels and Brad Hill – though all but Hill had graduated to the mid-career group by the 2015 flag.

Comparatively the Richmond best 22 I’ve compiled has Brandon Ellis, Nick Vlastuin and Kamdyn McIntosh. Not necesarilly a bad group of players – but fewer and less proven than their premiership-winning counterparts.

It’s worth noting briefly that the 2010 Collingwood premiership team was the youngest in history and significantly different in these categories both from the 2011-2015 flag sides and from the current Richmond side. But the game has shifted significantly since then, as evidenced by Mick Malthouse’s fall from premiership coach to sacked wooden spooner.

Recently a lot has been made of Champion Data’s deduction that Richmond are held back by the ‘bottom five’ members of their team, who according to Champion Data all rank well blow the quality level of the average AFL player.

I agree with that assessment, and in my view, it’s a symptom of the fact that Richmond’s beginning and end category players are not as well-developed as they ideally should be.

The reason for this is largely due to the fact that prior to 2006, the Tigers’ drafting bore very little long term fruit.

Richmond’s first draft pick, 2001-2005
Year Player Games for Richmond
2005 Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls 13
2004 Brett Deledio 232
2003 Alex Gilmour 0
2002 Jay Schulz 71
2001 David Rodan 65

Rodan and Schulz have gone on to have decent quality careers, but at other clubs, while Gilmour and Oakley-Nicholls proved remarkably bad investments. Deledio is the one exception, but was followed just three picks later in the same draft by the decision to take Richard Tambling over Lance Franklin.

Deledio happens to be the oldest player on the Richmond list who was recruited via the draft. The only players older than him, Maric and Chaplin, joined the club through trade and free agency respectively.

From 2006 onwards the Tigers’ drafting has significantly improved and in this time they’ve recruited much of that mid-career talent that has seen them qualify for finals three years running.

In 2006 they acquired Jack Riewoldt and Shane Edwards, in 2007 Trent Cotchin and Alex Rance, in 2008 Tyrone Vickery, in 2009 Dustin Martin, Ben Griffiths and Dylan Grimes, and in 2010 Reece Conca, Jake Batchelor and Bachar Houli (through the pre-season draft).

The talent they’ve recruited in 2011 onwards has generally looked to be of a good standard as well, though only a handful have been able to make their way into the team. More on that later.

The result of this statistical consideration is that I don’t believe the Tigers are equipped to make a premiership assault in 2016. Simply put, their list isn’t in the optimal position for that to happen, and while they could prove to be an exception to the rule, it’s not likely.

However, I also worked up a rough draft of what the Richmond team might look like coming into 2018, and at face value, it’s a list that I believe could be premiership contenders.

In making this 2018 Richmond team I have assumed the retirements of Troy Chaplin and Ivan Maric, who would both be 32 coming into the 2018 season. It’s not impossible that they could hang around, but my assumption is that they will not.

I have also dropped the likes of Steven Morris, Shaun Grigg, Taylor Hunt, Kane Lambert and Ben Griffiths. Again, it’s not impossible that these players could be Richmond regulars in 2018, but my suspicion is that they will not be.

The 2018 Richmond best 22 sees five players in the 30+ category – Deledio, Edwards, Houli, Riewoldt and Shaun Hampson, who I’ve included as Maric’s successor in the ruck.

I think it’s far more likely that Richmond will look outside the club to recruit a Maric replacement – just quietly, I’ll tip Zac Clarke – but without definite knowledge of who that might be, I’m taking the next best option available on the current list in Hampson.

The mid-career group is still populated by the likes of Cotchin, Rance and Martin among others, but has shrunk from 17 players to 13, much more in line with the typical premiership team of the decade to date. It also includes David Astbury as a predicted successor to Chaplin, under much the same logic as Hampson.

The last and arguably most important piece of the puzzle is the four players who will be 23 or under that I am tipping to come through and make themselves part of the best 22 by 2018. These are Richmond’s last three first round picks, Ben Lennon, Corey Ellis and Daniel Rioli, as well as 2014’s second round pick, Connor Menadue.

Laid out in the traditional style, the team looks like this.

Richmond 2018
B Dylan Grimes Alex Rance Nick Vlastuin
HB Bachar Houli David Astbury Chris Yarran
C Shane Edwards Dustin Martin Brandon Ellis
HF Corey Ellis Jack Riewoldt Brett Deledio
F Daniel Rioli Tyrone Vickery Ben Lennon
Fol Shaun Hampson Trent Cotchin Anthony Miles
Int Jake Batchelor Reece Conca Kamdyn McIntosh
Connor Menadue

That is a side that is capable of winning a premiership. Whether or not they will manage to pull it off, I don’t know. It will depend on a lot of other factors like coaching, and a little bit of luck. But unlike the 2016 Richmond, they will be capable.

The one doubt that sticks in my mind is whether or not the current Richmond youth crop can elevate themselves to the level needed. The lynchpin of this plan is for those early-career players to reach the grade of quality required to push for a flag.

It’s not that I don’t rate the talent of the players themselves but my concern is that the Tigers will adopt too much of a here-and-now approach and focus on stocking their side with mature-age recruits to the point where they neglect the development of their 21-and-under group.

This would be an understandable course of action. Richmond fans are so very thirsty for success, and the club wants to give it to them. In pursuit of that goal the Tigers have drafted and debuted a significant number of mature age talents in recent years, often at the expense of their new young talent.

Games played by Richmond draftees
Draft Year Youth Mature
2011 108 10
2012 86 39
2013 16 92
2014 12 13

The numbers show a clear shift over the past four years from primarily developing youth talent to a greater focus on playing mature talent, which indicates a decreased interest in the future and a more intense focus on the right now.

The Tigers went mature yet again in the 2015 drafts, spending two of their six draft selections on players 22 and over, Nathan Broad and Adam Marcon. It would not surprise me at all to see these two given significantly more gametime than first round pick Daniel Rioli this season.

Given that I believe the Tigers premiership chance will arrive not now but in 2018 and beyond, this concerns me – while there is nothing wrong with picking the best team available, this should be tempered with a focus on the long-term development of the list.

‘Playing the kids’ is a phrase often used to describe a rebuilding club, but even for successful sides it’s an integral part of lon-term list planning.

I’m not a fan of gifting players games, but when they feel they’ve earned it, Richmond need to be more willing to give their youth an opportunity to develop at AFL level, rather than just play the mature bodies in the hopes it might give them a marginally greater chance of immediate wins.

That just might win them a flag.

The Crowd Says:

2016-03-12T06:56:41+00:00

Ben Somes

Guest


No doubt Cotchin's been concentrating on his footy as he would be devastated at his individual performance of the finals loss, so he'll be striving for improvement. Sure his leadership is a little distraction, but being a captain he would be kicking himself because he didn't stand up in the game. All the leaders that didn't stand up in the final would be embarrassed. And Townsend says he aims to give Cotchin the support he needs - http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-02-27/protecting-cotchin-from-tags-is-new-tigers-aim

2016-02-13T23:25:02+00:00

Dalgety Carrington

Roar Guru


I'm not sure whether it would've been outwardly articulated that "we'll farm the draft for the next few years", but I reckon they thought they couldn't get to a premiership staying in the middle of the ladder and plumped for something more drastic. Oh and in those last four rounds of 2006 the Hawks played the bottom three teams and Geelong. Nice momentum builder going in to the off-season that one.

2016-02-13T22:54:03+00:00

Pumping Dougie

Guest


That 2018 half backline looks terrible - if those blokes aren't in the VFL side in 2018 then Richmond will have no hope of playing finals, let alone winning an AFL flag.

2016-02-13T16:45:28+00:00

New York Hawk

Guest


Too right we bottomed-out. 2004 was a complete disaster and saw Schwaby fired. But it wasn't by design. It was just a disastrous season. What was by design was hiring Clarko and moving on out older players who were middling or not producing, and were unlikely to be part of the next premiership. We played our youth in 2005 and started 2006 well (4-1 from memory) before the wheels fell off a bit from playing youth (eg the persistence of Dawson on Rocca). We beat Geelong twice in 2006 - once in the beginning and once at the end. By the last four rounds I thought that we were on a similar trajectory to St Kilda in 2003, where I think they blew away teams in the last few rounds. Either way, we unintentionally bottomed out, played youth and ascended. Easier said than done, unfortunately....

2016-02-12T22:41:56+00:00

Liam

Guest


Fair enough. I do agree that some of the talent is there, but I think the forward line is still to weak to win a flag from offense, so the Tigers need to either develop their defences or improve their attack. I also think that a statistical approach requires either an admission that you simply cannot cover all the bases with statistics, as some things are yet to be adequately measurable, or you need to refer to the deficiency areas that the tigers are behind in, and need to improve to become a flag side. For me, there is not a such a wide span of proven leadership in the squad that your 2018 team would be capable of rebounding midgame from a poor quarter, and , or course, tackles.

2016-02-12T14:47:17+00:00

Dalgety Carrington

Roar Guru


Hawthorn bottomed out. How do you reckon they got Franklin & Roughead? They finished mere percentage off the wooden spoon in 2004, third last in 2005 and 11th in 2006 (after a late flurry of wins against the dregs of the ladder and a faltering Geelong lifted them from 3rd last prior to the start of rd 19). You could almost argue that they actively decided to bottom out, after they felt that middling it, as they had done for a number of years, wasn't going to be enough to get them back to contending in a substantial way.

AUTHOR

2016-02-12T13:25:18+00:00

Josh

Expert


Well put matty, I think 'bottoming out' is a sign of greater issues at a club than merely a lack of talent, and for that reason those clubs very rarely make the full transition back to the top of the league, except over a long period of time. It's worth nothing that since 2000 the only team to have taken a player with the No. 1 pick and then been able to take that player to a premiership is Hawthorn with Luke Hodge, and they traded for that No. 1 pick rather than bottoming out to get it.

AUTHOR

2016-02-12T13:21:13+00:00

Josh

Expert


In a sense you could say the leadership and age profile do sinc up, because the current situation suggests that Richmond have little in the way of experienced old hands who can stand up and raise the young guys when the pressure is on. Will Deledio, Edwards, Riewoldt etc develop into that by 2018? Hard to say. I agree that Cotchin doesn't seem like the ideal choice for captain. I got the impression from last year's captains documentary that he is a really good bloke, but maybe not cut out to lead a footy club. There doesn't seem to be a clear alternative though. I'm not sure Riewoldt or Rance would be any better. Maybe something from left field - Anthony Miles?

AUTHOR

2016-02-12T12:47:09+00:00

Josh

Expert


As I said there are other aspects that determine whether or not that list would actually win the flag, in particular the coaching of the players, which ideally would resolve the problems you've pointed out. It may well be that they need a new senior coach in order to do that. But purely speaking from a list management position, I think it is at that point that Richmond will have enough talent in their squad to be a flag side. Whether or not they are capable of getting the talent to perform to that level or not is a different question entirely.

AUTHOR

2016-02-12T12:43:43+00:00

Josh

Expert


I agree mate, and will be tracking all of those players closely this year.

AUTHOR

2016-02-12T12:42:05+00:00

Josh

Expert


Cheers Tom. Something I'm beginning to realise I should've made more clear is that it is very much an argument of correlation rather than causation. The point I would be looking at it from is that to have a best 22 capable of winning a flag you probably need to draft about 25 or so players who are capable of playing at a premiership level. This is much more likely to happen over the course of 10 years or so with roughly 2 or 3 players a year than it is to happen in the space of five years or so where you would need about five quality players per draft. At the moment the Tigers are playing with mostly players from a smaller time bracket which to me suggests that they don't have it in them to win the flag, since their players from that bracket have not been as insanely well-drafted as the examples of Collingwood 2010 and Hawthorn 2008. The key reason for the Tigers being like this as I've looked at is their poor draft effort before 2006 or so and their recent trend away from developing their youth at AFL level. If they continue developing their youth I think that eventually the quality drafting they started in 2006 will start to pay dividends, but if they don't, it may wind up being just another wasted generation of talent. You make a good point though about many of those veterans being premiership players or otherwise finals regulars, and I think that's another aspect of it - having blokes from different age groups is not good just because it suggests longterm draft quality, but also because of the value that experienced players can add to a squad as leaders in high-pressure situations. The Tigers don't really have anything in this bracket, and that could prove to be a significant problem for them. The confidence that comes from having been there and done it before is immeasurable.

2016-02-12T12:33:28+00:00

Liam

Guest


"That is a side that is capable of winning a premiership." The backline you have listed for the 2018 season is very loose. You are reliant there on both Yarran and Houli being on players too small to be aerial threats, or both opposing flankers to be rather poor at attacking football, as neither defend particularly well. It just isn't their first instinct. You are also reliant on the midfield continuing to improve, without bringing in a multitude of new players. You are bringing in Menadue, who I really liked the look of as a draftee, but outside of Miles, who in your 2018 team tackles? Martin? He's more damaging with the ball. Cotchin? He isn't a physical type, and he doesn't tackle well. I've said this elsewhere, so I'll make it brief. While you don't tackle, and Richmond as a team don't seem to really get the numbers up, you tend towards struggling during finals, and unless Richmond is capable of doing something unprecedented - making the 'keepings-off' style of play they have had success with during the season proper work during finals - I simply cannot see them progressing much past prelims, even if they make top four.

2016-02-12T12:01:22+00:00

InvisiblePJs

Roar Rookie


Having watched at close range the agony, heartbreak and despair Richmond supporters have gone through over the past 3 years, maybe it just might be for the best if they went back to finishing ninth all the time again ...

2016-02-12T05:51:15+00:00

mattyb

Guest


Milo,I couldn't agree more with your comment that playing the kids is an integral part of list management. Yes it is applied to clubs that pull the rebuild card,but for mine rebuild is a phrase invented by clubs and swallowed whole by naive fans. In this day and age,with drafting etc, there is absolutely no excuse to go through a season with 1,2 or 3 wins. The term rebuild for mine has been invented by clubs as a substitute for the terms poor list management, poor player retention and poor recruiting. I know you can't stay on top for ever but the good teams tend to still finish mid table before relaunching into another premiership window. We have seen teams do this time and again yet the weak clubs are still trotting out the rebuild term and some supporters continue to accept this rather than ask the simple question "How did it get this bad?" Hopefully Hardwick plays few more kids.

2016-02-12T04:14:53+00:00

Slane

Guest


Seriously, Jack Riewoldt would take a bullet for the Tigers. To call him selfish is bang out of line. He wears his heart on his sleeve no doubt. If you want you could say he is too emotional to be a great captain. I would disagree with you but that's is just a matter of opinion. His team first mentality is not.

2016-02-12T03:38:41+00:00

Slane

Guest


I'd give it to Maric until he retires and then hopefully Vlastuin will be ready by then.

2016-02-12T03:37:09+00:00

Slane

Guest


Jack Riewoldt isn't selfish at all. He just cares about the Tigers more than most supporters even do.

2016-02-12T02:55:33+00:00

Milo

Roar Rookie


As a long suffering Tiger I totally agree on Cotchin and have said so on many posts. Real leaders are born and Cotchin's just not cut out for it. Also for the team's sake we need him concentrating on his footy without any distractions of leadership. Jack is underrated as a leader now and has his younger days stigma to shake off when he was very immature. Last year he really grew as a man and leader. He isn't selfish and if anything gives away and tries to give away too many goals up forward when he should be kicking them. That said, Id prefer Maric or Rance while someone like Vlaustin matures a bit more as by all accounts Tigger is a natural leader. Rancey acts the clown but his performances on the field are frequently courageous and inspirational. He is a smart footballer and his humour and leadership around the club make the boys a close knit unit. Ivan is a warrior and inspirational also and I wouldn't mind him stepping in for a year or so, but unfortunately that's probably all he's got left.

2016-02-12T02:49:44+00:00

Wilson

Roar Guru


Who is in the leadership group for the Tigers or have they not picked theres yet

2016-02-12T02:26:59+00:00

Nick Croker

Roar Guru


Making Jack Riewoldt the captain might be the most ludicrous suggestion I've read on this site. Although it is almost impossible for any of us to ascertain leadership from the outside in any case, what makes you think Riewoldt would be a good captain? He's good at what he does but he's borderline the most selfish bloke on your team. Cotchin is not just a serious gun but also a super level headed guy (seemingly) especially for someone so young. You don't always need a guy ranting and raving the loudest to demonstrate leadership. Cotchin might be mild mannered but by the way he plays you know he'd run through a brick wall for you. It's worth acknowledging that he copped an excellent tag in that final against North and that every so often even good players don't bring their best. I think the assertion that he 'doesn't show up in finals' is a fallacy and completely ignores the good work of the opposition to take him out of the game. He also was thrown forward at times to try and throw the tag which didn't work and obviously hurt his possession total by taking him out of the play. Still I'm not trying to justify that performance other than to say I don't think it was down solely to Cotchin playing poorly. On top of that I think he's a great leader and if I'm choosing a guy on personality and demeanour I'd have a Cotchin-type over a Riewoldt-type any day of the week

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