NSW Waratahs coach Daryl Gibson is proposing a reciprocal arrangement between Super Rugby and English Premiership clubs in a bid to retain more of Australia’s elite players.
Gibson on Thursday applauded the ARU’s handling of David Pocock’s contract negotiations and urged the governing body to continue exploring new avenues to keep Wallabies stars in Super Rugby.
Pocock, arguably the most influential player in international rugby, has been granted a sabbatical in 2017 as part of a “flexible contract”, a contract option Gibson would like to see utilised more when negotiating with players wanting to venture to Europe.
“It definitely works well in Japan,” he said as the Waratahs battle to retain Wallabies backline utility Kurtley Beale, who is weighing up a two-season $2.7 million offer from London Wasps.
“Players view that as a good top-up to their contract and they can still come back and play the majority of Super Rugby without being too compromised.
“Obviously with Europe, it’s a whole different ball game – but potentially (it’s) possible.
“If you can partner with an overseas or European club and potentially share a contract, that’s kind of the flexibility that possibly we may have to get to in the future if we want our best players to play in Australia.”
Gibson admitted his notion would take some nutting out, but believed it plausible for northern and southern hemisphere clubs to share a player.
“Certainly you look at a team like (London) Saracens and the (Cape Town-based) Stormers, there’s been a reciprocal arrangement there with players in the past,” he noted.
“The fact that that they can go up and play premiership and then also come back and play Super (Rugby).
“How we want to view that in terms of are we at the tipping point where we’re going to lose more and more? Or is it just normal, the fact that top players will come and go?
“And they want to go overseas at the eight, nine-year, 10-year mark, or they’ve done good service in Australia, you really can’t argue with that, I don’t believe.”
Perthstayer
Roar Rookie
PeterK - My comment wasn't meant to be criticism of yours, I think we agree a conversation is better than staying silent
Perthstayer
Roar Rookie
PeterK - I read Gibbo's intention as "lets start a conversation". He says something then caveats it, such as "...that’s kind of the flexibility that possibly.." "Does he care about the Wallabies?". One of his suggestions may suggest he doesn't but IMO that's the point, he throws something in the ring & if the first draft is crap his attitude is can we improve on it or does the idea need dumping? But either way let's keep talking. But be prepared everyone. Losing players to Europe is a huge blight on rugby in Australia and as such will require harsh measures to overcome. This will not be achievable without there being winners and losers. But, the more people keep talking, the fewer losers there may be. And this where I think Gibbo has it right.
Shane D
Roar Rookie
A problem I see with that is who is going to pay the extra players a Super rugby squad will need to have until the 'star' players return in May. Another issue is what shape would those players be in when they get back? Year round rugby would increase the risk of injury through wear & tear. Plenty of players have commented in the past about how important the off season is to their bodies. Both in terms of getting injuries sorted out & having the chance to improve their fitness & strength. Seems like a great way to shorten careers to me.
Bill
Guest
IMO I think it is a suggestion that should be investigated particularly if the powers that be can agree on a global season. At least its an idea thrown out there for discussion rather than sitting on your hands hoping the issue will go away.
taylorman
Roar Guru
Agree, bit like we judged JK on his last season rather than his first...Gulp... :-(
taylorman
Roar Guru
Yes agree OB but part of the reason for having that '3' (I believe in reality around half the squad is actually French) is because of that very disconnect. It takes a mutual understanding and in NZ its all part of that all roads lead to the ABs thinking that's ever present. There are exceptions, and fluctuations, and friction, but the understanding is much higher here than anywhere else. Train your disagreement is exactly the 'difference' I'm referring to. It is through 'effort' made on both the national and SXV coaches that create that synergy. For some the levels are higher than others, but 'act in their own interests' is not a fair description of the NZ SXV setup- currently anyway.
ClarkeG
Guest
Although they do make certain exceptions it is interesting - or not - that NZR appears not interested at all in this type of arrangement suggested by Gibson. Charles Piutau for example wanted to sign with the Blues as a stop gap before moving to Ulster. NZR however were not interested in that as he could not be available for the whole super rugby tournament.
cs
Roar Guru
Let's not get ahead of ourselves in the know-all department chaps. Gibson's comments are consistent with Cheika's on tour in Europe at the moment: I think Kurtley is a separate discussion [to Pocock's new contract] – it's more of a play there or play here situation. The flexibility in a contract, definitely, is an option to swap over. But it's not the same as [Pocock's]." The word 'definitely' is intriguing. Maybe they won't get there, but it's pretty clear that the brains trust's trying to cook up something.
Old Bugger
Guest
TM In Toulon's case, they probably don't give a toss because the team has only got 3 french players, to make the national team. The other 12 run-on players are from everywhere else but, France. In Gibbo's and WBs case, it certainly should remind folks IMO, how difficult I think Dingo found trying to get a collective agreement and understanding between himself and the 5 SR coaches, throughout WB-land. Perhaps Dingo did have a communication problem and consequently, found it difficult to obtain a mutual understanding, with the SR coaches.....at the end of the day, who cares cos it seems some WB roarers on this blog, don't seem to.
PeterK
Roar Guru
If they are bench / fringe players for wallabies and have a realistic chance of winning a first super rugby title, and virtually only play a couple of super rugby games and finals they may easily drop the wallabies games. Also depends what the financial arrangements are. I never said this was a good idea for the wallabies or the players however you ruled it out based on a calendar saying gibson would not get any value saying they would play NRC. I clearly pointed out how they could be of value to gibson in a super rugby situation. Instead of admitting that your initial post was wrong i.e there could be value you then go off on other tangents.
Train Without A Station
Roar Guru
Tman I disagree. A professional coach has to act in their own interests. Teams are set up to support the national team better in the SH though.
taylorman
Roar Guru
Probably one of the key differences between that and the NZ setup then. All SXV coaches 'care' about the All Blacks, and vice versa. At a certain level there is a mutual understanding that both are there to serve each other. The SXV is THE primary feeder into the AB's and with SXV players rising to test quality level there are obvious benefits for the success of the franchise having AB's in the squad. Not only in player quality but also in style of play, consistency of performance and standards. If Gibson doesn't 'care' about the Wallabies to a level that he needs to, both are ultimately losing out. Overseas coach or not, the level of synergy between the SXV sides and the Wallabies is critical. Its just a matter of where that level is. The lower the synergy, the lower the contribution of the side to the test side. Toulon is a perfect example...now there's a side that doesnt give one iota of a toss about the French side, and it shows.
Train Without A Station
Roar Guru
If they play for a Super Rugby team they are. Gibson doesn't care about the Wallabies. He has no reason to really. But he can't ignore the fact that player selection there is beyond his control. If players are getting most of their money from the Aviva, but need to miss games, where will they be? Wallabies fixtures or Super Rugby fixtures?
PeterK
Roar Guru
does Gibson care about the wallabies? The point for Gibson is you have lost those star players. So having them for a few games and then finals is better than nothing. Of course you need to qualify. The point is the reality he is facing is super rugby in aust cannot compete with the money on offer. So make the best of it. It is like the old days of shute shield where just for finals the wallabies turned up. It is called stacking. As to the wallabies they may or may not be eligible, or may not be wanted.
Muzzo
Guest
A very fair assessment TWAS. Cheers
Train Without A Station
Roar Guru
But are you going to make finals with your best players being available for 3 regular season games at the most? Then there is the chance those players may play for the Wallabies. So the players are going to play 22 matches between October and the end of May, possibly 24 (Before we consider european cup, etc.). Then come back for 3 test matches potentially. Now the RUPA don't want players to be playing more than 30 games a year don't they? So they're going to get back to Australia with potentially more than 24 games under their belt, possibly play June tests, roll into the last 3 rounds, then play finals based on the team making the finals without key players for 13 matches, then roll into the Rugby Championship, before jetting back off to England to commence another 12 months full of rugby with no off-season or pre-season. Sounds sustainable...
PeterK
Roar Guru
if they come back in May and the finals are end of july it means he can have star players be ready and available for the finals.
PeterK
Roar Guru
There is not enormous talent at the tahs. Probably the same as the reds have.
Train Without A Station
Roar Guru
It would be unfair on Gibson to judge him on 2014's standards. The 2016 team isn't as strong as the 2015 one, that was weakened from the 2014 one. Happens to every team that wins a competition. I'd be judging Gibson on 2017 more so than 2016.
Zero Gain
Guest
Gibson should focus on coaching the Tahs. not trying to restructure world rugby. He hasn't even proven he can do that, yet. He has been given a team with enormous talent, premiers two years ago and semi-finalists last year. Pressure is on 'Gibbo'. Ha, ha....