This week’s Roar and Against debate is on the controversial comments from former player and coach Leigh Matthews who suggested Queensland is only big enough for one AFL team.
Each week two writers will go head-to-head, and will only have 250 words to get their point across on one of the big sporting issues of the week.
It will be up to you, in the comments section, to decide the winner. That winner will stay on and take on a new challenger and new topic. That challenger can be anyone, including any commenters who throw their hat in the ring.
To debate this week’s topic, Roar guru Riley Pettigrew is the challenger to take on fellow Roar guru Connor Bennett, who won last week’s debate.
Queensland is not a big enough AFL heartland to warrant two AFL teams
AGREE
Connor Bennett (Roar Guru)
Is Queensland big enough to house two teams? Considering it’s the second biggest state in the country in terms of landmass (1.85 million sq km in case you were wondering), you would think so.
But is the sunshine state ‘big’ enough of a market to justify two full sets of banana benders? No.
Despite the triple premiership winning Brisbane Lions of the early naughties, the AFL has always struggled to get a foothold into Queensland, with such a strong rugby league presence in the area.
Already in the first seven rounds of the 2016 season, the Lions and Gold Coast Suns have the second and third lowest average attendance figures in the entire competition.
Could it be their slow starts? Well, not when you consider the two sides have been in the same position the previous three years as well, actually registering lower numbers each year.
Alright then, how about membership? That’s one of the main gauges on a club’s popularity and influence in their respective regions.
These numbers are no more appealing than the attendance figures. The Suns and Lions have had two of the three lowest membership numbers in the last three seasons across the 18 team league.
Compare that to the NRL and two of the Queensland sides, the Broncos and Cowboys, have the highest and fifth-highest membership numbers respectively in the NRL.
Even Gold Coast Suns Chairman Tony Cochrane has admitted the issues at hand.
“We are trying to develop the AFL in rugby league heartland,’’ he said.
“This is not a natural AFL market.”
Queensland simply doesn’t carry enough weight or popularity for the Sherrin to accommodate two teams.
DISAGREE
Riley Pettigrew (Roar Guru)
Off the back of the introduction of the Gold Coast Suns into the AFL back in 2011, participation rates in Queensland Aussie Rules has grown 82 percent.
AFL Queensland now has a record 216,381 participants across the sunshine state, a 20 percent increase on 2014 – a rapid growth rate when compared with the national rate of just eight percent.
What is even more surprising is that the Suns are the best supported professional sporting franchise in the rugby league heartland that is the Gold Coast-Tweed region – home of NRL club the Gold Coast Titans.
The Gold Coast market potential is massive with more than half a million people making it the sixth most populated city in Australia behind the five metropolitan centres.
The AFL franchise boasts 12,243 members in 2016 compared to the Titans’ 9,653 members.
The fans are voting with their feet with the Suns attracting an average of 17,966 fans to games last season with 12,361 a game turning up at their home ground of Metricon Stadium. The AFL’s other expansion team the Giants only managed to attract 10,786 to home games.
Meanwhile, their NRL counterparts have the turnstiles clicking only 11,249 times per game at Cbus Super Stadium.
All teams have their rough patches on the field.
The Swans struggled in the late 80s and early 90s before they eventually became competitive.
It took the Dockers nine years to qualify for the finals for the first time in an AFL city.
Sorry Leigh, the numbers don’t lie. The Suns are here to stay.
Greg trilby
Guest
As a born and bred Sydneysider I am on the camp of it being an all code city - wsw was the clincher. Of course rugby league is still the number one code, jiust not the dominant one and I realise that most passionate rugby league fans will not agree with this
Agent11
Guest
In participation yes Sydney is an all code city, but then so is Brisbane. But as far as media coverage, tv audience and general interest goes League is still way ahead of the other codes in Sydney.
Fred
Guest
Over time there should be a steady increase in the number of AFL level clubs in both NSW and QLD until they are in line with the population levels.This should be driven largely by junior level football clubs, which is what the AFL executive has focused McLachlan on.
Fred
Guest
Wait for the Lions to get their act together on and off the field and im guessing the average will climb to at least 25k, maybe 28-30k. IMO the AFL needs to step in a do some sort of review of the Lions.
Fred
Guest
This. North Melbourne were offered a huge deal to move to the Gold Coast before the Suns eventuated, but they said no. The goal of the Giants and Suns is to grow the popularity of football in those areas, and with this will come more players. It is a short term sacrifice of quality for a huge long term gain. That said, it is still the greatest sport of them all.
harry houdini
Roar Rookie
Are you denying that Sydney is the Australian home of soccer or Rugby union ?, and although the official home of RL considering all the NRL clubs, i reckon the real home is QLD. Not only that but the biggest club in Sydney across a whole range of measures is a AFL club That says to me that Sydney is a all code city.
duecer
Guest
I would agree with harry Houdini - Football is rapidly growing in Sydney, with by far the largest participation, AFL has the biggest club and in different suburbs there are differing popularity of codes. It's quite a different situation to a few decades ago. and I think Agent 11 has misinterpreted 'arguably the home of RL, when it does seem that Brisbane is more passionate. Also don't think anyone would say RU is bigger than RL in Australia overall.
Sami
Roar Rookie
How much of their current situation is due to Queensland and how much is just down to simple mismanagement? Not trying to bash Brisbane, but they certainly have not helped themselves in recent years. Yes the AFL needs to give them more assistance, especially as it relates to facilities, but Brisbane need to come up with a workable and concrete plan of action regarding said facilities. Pick a location already, get plans drawn up, costings estimated, present it to the AFL and plead for help with money side.
Agent11
Guest
Sydney is the home of Union, Soccer and AFL, and arguably Rugby League? hahaha channel 9 and fox paid all that money to the NRL so they could broadcast it to the people of Ipswich and Townsville LOL
Josh
Expert
I'd say they're settled when they're consistently making profits and not struggling to retain their youth. It's not really matter of time but rather achievement - the fact it has taken so long is testament to the difficulty of succeeding in the Queensland market.
harry houdini
Roar Rookie
No i don't think he thinks that, but he actually has a pretty good point, Sydney particularly WS is the home of Australian soccer, it is also in the Northern and Eastern suburbs either the home of Australian RU or equal to Brisbane as the home of Australian Rugby, the Swans by a large variety of measures is the biggest club in Sydney and is an Australian football club and by definition although arguable it is also the home of Australian RL, i personally think the real home of RL in this country is rural QLD or large towns such as Townsville, Newcastle, Ipswich even Wollongong etc If that is not a all code city, don't know what one is
Connor Bennett
Editor
Dems fightin words
michael RVC
Roar Pro
I think exploring the question of whether Melb should have 10 clubs in the AFL competition s far more meaningful and far less ambiguous.
michael RVC
Roar Pro
Spot on..........Suns have underperformed badly in a development sense and a consistency sense considering available talent. Club admin has also been sub par for an AFL franchise.
We've got a live one
Guest
"unlike Sydney which is now an all code city." The funny thing is is that you actually think this is true. Next thing you'll say is that Union is bigger League in Australia (oh wait, I think you already have).
Mister Football
Roar Guru
to see Didymus Blanket play is a good a reason to retain the suns as any!
Max
Guest
Game in every major state every week Attract tourist numbers to Qld economy Provides nationwide exposure for advertisers each week Coast produces many great athletes which could get AFL exposure. Strategically force the NRL to have GC team to prevent them expanding elsewhere. Lions and Suns struggling at the mo but will get better. Why pick on them when at bottom of cycle. The fact some clown quotes Broncos and Cowboys members numbers as a comparison when they both played in the GF last year and doesn't mention NRL neighbor Titans numbers show how biased the against case is. The Broncos have Brisbane all to themselves - its like Adelaide when the Crows were the only team.
Max
Guest
Did you count the Fox numbers - no RL people never do...
harry houdini
Roar Rookie
That's why inland towns - Wagga - Canberra etc who don't have big water sports seem to produce plenty of footballers in proportion to the population
Simoc
Guest
The Gold Coast Suns have excellent players and incompetent management. When they finally started playing well, the coach was sacked and the dinosaur Eade brought in. Watch Eades Sydney team play the Dockers under Drum during his term. The worst quarter/game of AFL football ever played. When he was appointed it made the Gold Coast Suns the biggest idiots on the block. Comparitively Beveridge was appointed to the Bulldogs whose squad is no better, and they have been outstanding and a chance to win the flag this year. All due to management.