The most embarrassing thing about the blood-letting at Wests Tigers has been the description by some people of James Tedesco, Aaron Woods, Mitchell Moses and Luke Brooks as the ‘big four’.
The term has, of course, been borrowed from how Cameron Smith, Billy Slater, Cooper Cronk and Greg Inglis, the original big four at Melbourne, were described.
In reality, the Tigers quartet is really no better than a ‘medium-sized four’ by comparison.
Fullback Tedesco is the only one with the potential, at least, to one day be considered on the same level as those three still-Storm champions and Inglis, who is, of course, now at South Sydney.
Woods is a regular NSW and Australian prop, but he has never been the best front-rower in the game. Five-eighth Moses and half Brooks have obviously each still got a lot to learn.
It should be pointed out that the players don’t refer to themselves as being a part of a big four and Woods made it clear he was embarrassed by the description when he appeared on NRL 360 on Fox Sports on Tuesday night.
But Tigers CEO Justin Pascoe referred to them as the big four on Monday. Perhaps it was just evidence of him hoping they turn out to be as big a four as the Tigers would like. Anyway, that puts him alongside much of the media, which has picked up on the ‘big four’ as an easy tag.
However good they may or may not turn out to be as a group in the future, Tedesco, Woods, Moses and Brooks clearly wield a lot of influence now.
Even if they’re not trying.
Woods also claimed on NRL 360 that when he recently said he wanted to know who would be coaching the Tigers next year before he made a decision on whether to re-sign, it wasn’t a comment designed to be negative about Jason Taylor.
He had just wanted to know who was going to be coach, whether it was Taylor or someone else.
But Woods, Tedesco, Moses and Brooks, who each come off contract this year, are, of course, all managed by the same agent, Isaac Moses, and that is a nightmare scenario for a football club.
So the board of the Tigers were feeling pressure, whether real or imagined, to do something in the wake of back-to-back horror results against Penrith and Canberra and on Monday they sacked Taylor as coach.
The Tigers said it was a performance-based decision and that it looked like the players were no longer playing for Taylor.
But what now for the Tigers?
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Andrew Webster has been appointed as interim coach, which makes him the fourth coach in just over five years for the Tigers including Tim Sheens, who was gone at the end of 2012, Mick Potter (2013-14) and Taylor (2015 until this week).
The word has been pretty strong that Webster will only be in the hot-seat for days rather than weeks and that Ivan Cleary will soon be taking over, but there has been no announcement along those lines from the club.
Tedesco never stopped trying, even when the Raiders were in the process of belting the Tigers by 40 points last Sunday. You always know what you’re going to get from him.
Woods, the team captain, has got to start driving his mostly-young teammates like they have never been driven before.
Moses and Brooks have got to produce on a consistent basis, if they are actually good enough to do that.
The 6 and 7 each have defensive deficiencies which opposition teams cruelly bid to expose and after those recent lop-sided results rival teams will keep aiming to do that.
The pair are under a harsh spotlight, but, hey, that’s football.
On Sunday afternoon, the team that includes the medium-sized four will play against the team that contains the big three when the Tigers meet the Storm at Leichhardt Oval.
The timing is exquisite and it is going to be fascinating to see what happens.
The Barry
Roar Guru
No, it's not key but it's part of presenting a professional image. Particularly important in difficult times. I work in a corporate environment in a client facing role and as I mentioned there are a lot of meetings where ties aren't required. All good. But Pascoe's a CEO fronting the media regarding a major business decision. I don't know a CEO who would choose an informal approach in that situation. It presents as amateur. The only time I've seen my CEO without a tie is at our xmas party. Who mentioned fat white males? Besides appearance, he's also paying players (including the incumbent NSW hooker) more than a million dollars a season (out of a 7M cap) to not play with the Tigers, is in charge of a club that is going backwards on and off the field, has backed the coach to sack the star player and then sacked the coach and made that decision with incredibly poor timing. You can compare him to the current crop of young billionaires if you like. I'll compare him to an unshaven, tieless guy in an ill-fitting suit looking like an amateur and performing worse.
Alex L
Roar Rookie
Storm big 4 (Bromwich makes 4) > Tigers big 4. In pretty much every respect.
The eye
Guest
Its round 3 steveng..round 3... .m.moses is no galah..his performance for Australia in the PM's squad at the end of last year(in a hot side) showed us that. .I'm a sharkies fan but rarely miss a Tigers (or Knights) game..love the battlers..theyve got the opportunity to turn that dishonour to the jersey from the last fortnight around this week..faith (blind) has me convinced theyre up for it..we'll see.
Edward Kelly
Roar Guru
Really a tie and being shaven is key to you! Makes me wonder what female CEO's have to do to impress you. Fat white male CEO's in suits are so yesterday, just compare that look to the current crop of young billionaires, don't judge a male CEO by their clothes.
Edward Kelly
Roar Guru
John, remind me what job the players agents do that is for the good of the game? Especially a player agent that holds on his books a big whack of the stars in a team, eg the tigers, and seems to have the power over a weak dysfunctional board to have a teams coach fired after two loses? How is that good for the "game" or for fans?
sham
Guest
Big 4? Try big one. Of the four only one of them, Tedesco is first rate. Moses and Brooks are very poor defenders while Woods is Humphrey B Bear. Don't get me wrong he seems to be a great guy and a solid performer but he has all the aggression of a dead hamster. He doesn't run hard he just sort of jogs up like a big sloth. Sure he runs or jogs a lot of metres but that just reflects the fact that he plays big minutes. He has a big slow motor.
John
Guest
The players who contribute to you feeling warm on the weekends are professional athletes Edward. That is their job. Fans suck the blood from their performances (or lack thereof) for their own enjoyment or disappointment but they are doing a job just like the rest of us at the end of the day. Get a grip.
Edward Kelly
Roar Guru
Agree Jamesb. They are a parasite on the game. Yes some people may feel all nice about a player earning the big bucks for his family etc etc, but in the end the Game and the clubs pay for that warn feeling and ultimately the fans pay. Nothing is free in this world any more.
The eye
Guest
Depth was the least of their problem..knocking on off the kick off,dropping the ball on your own line,throwing intercepts,kicking off over the sideline,missing crucial tackles,putting a mid field bomb dead..all committed by starting members..
damo
Guest
I'm sorry mate but although most pros love the game they play, they still do it for money. If the estate agent selling your house got you more money, that's a win right ? Or are you worried that you've contributed to the over-inflation of the housing market & stopped young renters getting a foot in the door ? Besides, if the staircase in the next 'doer-upperer' you buy collapses & you can't work anymore, you'll be comforted to know that all the money you made earlier has you in good stead & there's even provision to claim insurance etc which means the payout is all relative to your cover & the value of the house. What a nice feeling, going to work & securing your future & being successful in life, all whilst doing something you enjoy. And all thanks to your estate agent, who keeps an ear to the ground for the best deals.
Big Daddy
Guest
Much like the term "grand final replay". That's something the media really get carried away with.
John
Guest
Different John, but i do agree with first John. Agents work for their players, their job is to get best rate for their players and ensuring they are happy. No player will ever come out and say my agent screwed me over by getting me a bigger contract. But a player will get replace their agent if they deem their agent hasn't gotten them a good enough contract. Sure over-inflated contracts don't do the clubs a lot of good, if the agent lands the over-inflated contract, it could just be a case of agents being better at negotiations than the people at the clubs. Which points to another reason why you need experienced business people running clubs, they would have more experience in negotiation and can better ensure the club doesn't pay overs.
steveng
Roar Rookie
The 'eye' have a look at where the Tigers are after round 3 and where the Rabbitohs are after round 3. Rabbitohs 5th and the Tigers 16th and without a coach. The Rabbitohs - F80 A70 / Tigers F42 A100. That first game was made like the Tigers are going to win the comp and the Rabbits will run 12th to 16th.
The Barry
Roar Guru
Good comment. I have a lot of meetings now where no tie is required but nothing of that importance. I don't know a CEO who would front the media unshaven and without a tie. Unless you want to put forward the image that you're completely unprofessional. Backing them sacking Taylor makes no sense at all. They could have flicked him last year, not been paying Farah 700k to play for Souths and have had their preferred coach preparing the team how he wanted for the off season. The whole thing is amateur.
AA
Guest
How can anyone rely on them to win football games when they can't even be honest with themselves or the media about the state of management at the club? If the players wanted Taylor to stay, he would still be coach today.
Robbo
Guest
I can't - the Storm are the best team defensively in the comp. It's true, the Tigers were 6-6 at the 35 min marks. But it's an 80 min game and their depth was tested, the Raiders bench was far superior to the Tigers bench and they rolled over them once fatigue set in. Also the Tigers winger marking Rapana was caught out. One time he was at marker and the defensive line didn't adjust, just left the wing empty. Another time he was well in field and rapana just ran down the sideline before his kick for the Austin try.
Robbo
Guest
Woods is a plodder, barely runs at pace, doesn't bust the line, doesn't hurt when tackling. He's just a big lump who carts the ball up again and again. Plays big minutes for a prop and therefore gets big metres. On the positive side he doesn't appear to make many mistakes, but to be considered one of the best at the club and to be paid a significant salary it's a bit of a problem for the Tigs.
The Barry
Roar Guru
He's certainly been putting his body on the line this season.
The Barry
Roar Guru
I can only guess but overall it wasn't the tone of the conversation at all. It wasn't about putting him on the spot or digging dirt on Taylor, it was a general question that Woods answers openly and honestly. He's also a weekly regular on the show - probably a bit too confronting a question for that sort of gig. I wouldn't expect Ikin to ask a hard hitting question at the best of times.
The Barry
Roar Guru
He was very good. Answered honestly and well.