Player recruitment needs an overhaul in the NRL

Including TPAs in the salary cap won’t work. If Thurston’s manager negotiates a million dollar a year contract with Nike, why should that be included in the Cowboys salary cap?

Greg Ambrose said | October 29th 2017 @ 1:46pm "Why is that so? If you start winning the debate you start copping abuse or if you are winning clearly they usually disappear." Hahahaha

You are reaching new lows in placing words into someones mouth to try to appear superior and correct. You said " Your point re under 20's GF directly indicates you place no credit to a teams performance just the refs calls .... blah blah blah" Believing that a ref gave your team the rub of the green and you wouldn't have won because of this doesn't mean you believe that nothing else matters. If Parra of made less mistakes in the second half then they win easily despite the ref. All I said was what I said not some ridiculous figment of your imagination. Debating with you is a waste of time as you have just proven so you won't hear from me again .

On your first reply: I did watch the u20s GF. I don't see the relevance to this but I'll entertain you. I thought Manly done well to come back and if you are attributing their win solely down to the refs calls I don't agree but that's purely opinion. I am referring to how you carried on after the Manly Penrith final. Specifically that Walker try. Now please stay on topic. On your second reply: Good on you for looking it upGreg/ Wild Eagle (or is it George Michael). Now you have just confirmed that is you, as we all suspected, I shall offer my reply. On Sept 12, in Mr X's article, http://www.theroar.com.au/2017/09/12/time-shane-flanagan-trent-barrett-grow/ he did say just that and he advised you 3x you were misinterpreting his comment. It is speculation that Manly may have missed the finals should they have lost the Newcastle game but his point was that good teams make up for bad calls with time on the board. Your point re U20s GF directly indicates that you place no credit to a teams performance, just the refs calls, irrespective of time left or oppositions play. Yet in this very thread you write "Nat , anyone can see that many factors influence the result of a game including player , coaches and ref mistakes. Is that clear ? It is my position and always has been, what other logical position can anyone take?" If we are talking about contradictions, your comments only a few days ago are staggering. You will find them here http://www.theroar.com.au/2017/10/23/need-new-perspective-nrl-refereeing-woes/#comment-5982451 You hold the position that one moment can swing a match. You've misquoted Wayne Bennett in making that point. Momentum changes happen repeatedly in a game and Mr X was trying to make that point that good teams overcome them. Yet in http://www.theroar.com.au/2017/09/17/nrl-needs-grow-not-way-todd-greenberg-thinks/#comment-5922702 Your direct quote "Rightly or wrongly the coaches were dealing with a specific issue. Ref and bunker errors.Quote any coach who denies that game plans and player errors had no affect on the result.Only a clown would deny that player errors don’t matter. Can you quote this Clown?" Yes, You! Even in this thread. Other quotes from the same article about JT "Maybe coaches just need to use a JT style rant about corrupt NRL and then they cant be fined". I could continue on this piece alone but the article is there for all to review. Lastly I'll add http://www.theroar.com.au/2017/09/16/youre-going-introduce-fair-play-go-whole-hog/#comment-5921159 where you have attacked the NRL, Greeberg, personally insulted me (like I have any control of my status) and put words into the Penriths coaches mouth for not blaming the ref on a single call in the first half - obviously that cost him the game too. So I have not quoted you out of context. I have referenced everything with a link - not just a lifted quote to suit the purpose. Game over, have a nice day.

The Draft concept is generally the entry pathway for NEW players into the system. And in the NFL and NBA it works because the players come out of the College system. The AFL cut back at the 'Club' structures (used to be at least 3 tiers, Under19s, Reserves and Seniors). The Under 19s went and they (the AFL) brought in the generic Under 18 competition. This put player development through the teenage (secondary school) years out of the hands of clubs and into the hands of regional specialist development 'clubs'. However - the key miss being the reduction from U19s to U18s which means that kids are often preparing for Yr 12 exams and the draft at the same time. The NRL running a draft would have to change the 'development' tier of the sport. And would lose the apparent NSW/QLD advantage of the sport (vs the AFL invader) that sees players able to play 'locally'.

I'm sure the NFL system works great. No doubt, as I highlighted in my article, as a US major sport, the NFL has no real alternative for players who don't have transferable skills. Base salary in the NFL is US$1m. In the next biggest league in Canada, US$80k. That's why the draft and trade period work in the NFL. League/Union/Soccer players have different competitions/sports via for the talent, hence a draft/trade period is useless.

I took the liberty of looking up the example I remember most of the hypocrisy I was battling which did rightly or wrongly got me fired up. Mr X said regarding Barrett and Flannigans outbursts " Whenever my team is duded by the refs call I always go by the fact that Rugby League is an 80 minute game and therefore unless the mistake by the officals is made with around 5 minutes or so left you always have time to to make up for it as that is the sign of a team that is a title contender " Fair enough if that is a point of view, but I disagree. Here he is on the same page disagreeing with himself. " Think back to the Uate try against Newcastle, if that wasn't given ( 20 odd minutes from the end ) then Manly wouldn't be in the finals in the first place" For a start Manly would be in the finals but the real point is taking exactly the opposite position in the same debate. His response was that I missed the point. Somehow the mob seems to think that this Mr X is the rational one and I'm out of order , that contradiction is completely irrational

It highlights my point really. You'd be better of quoting something I actually said and I could respond. What you have said I don't agree with at all , it is wildly out of context. I am rational but people don't actually quote and debate what I say so it's a bit pointless really. Did you watch the under 20's GF? A mate of mine who sponsors Manly couldn't watch the game but I told him that I reckon we would have lost if the refs had a better game. I believe we got the rub of the green. It can only ever be my opinion and it is rational despite what anyone says. The fact that Parra made a lot of mistakes as well doesn't alter my view at all.

It doesn't have to be an AFL system. The AFL borrowed from the NFL. The NFL generally works.

Correct Wayne, The NRL system is fair to all. It's the best system for a sport where its talent is sought after globally. Not much use complaining if you club can't learn from the best.

Greg, You are bouncing around a bit there mate. I am not privy to your Many forums and if you are going to reference a discussion/ argument on this site, please reference who and what pseudonym you were using at the time. I will be happy to search it. I am referring to one, Glenn's comment. Both yourself and Jeffrey requested I offer more analysis on my comment to Glenn, which I have done 90mins ago. Further I offered my retort to you stating why, I believe and was involved in, you were argued with in the weeks after the finals match. I'm not sure who else could influence a match other than players, coaches and refs so we agree on that point. Do I believe in turning points, yes. Was the Walker No Try a 50/50? yes. Was it a turning point? No. A turning point, for whatever reason, indicates a change in momentum where a team takes the ascendancy to go on and win the game. Walker, at the 47th min, is ruled offside. I agree is was rough but not blatantly wrong. Manly kept the lead, scored another try, Uate bombed another try and Manly only lost in the the final minute to a dubious Peachy try. Now, you vehemently argued that Walker moment and accused all and sundry, including the refs, NRL, Johnathon Thurston and even Melbourne Storm into your argument. That's when, I believe, most turned against you on this site. As I said, you went nuts. With all due respect, your passion blinded you from rationale thought. Then you started with the personal insults to other roarers. This went on for two weeks and multiple pseudonyms. That's not logical debate from a superior position and no one wants you to follow the mob but everyone just wanted you to accept a 50/50 and move on. Like I said, your comments have been well balanced in recent weeks, I can see you understand the game - just passionate about Manly. I'm a Bronco fan and between them, Manly, Roosters and Melbourne I understand the prejudice from other fans. It comes with being successful. You cannot change someones opinion but if they offer a position citing something wrong/vague as fact, that you can challenge. Know your subject and offer a calm respectful debate and clarify any misunderstood position. As you said above, most roarers are fair and reasonable if you clearly make a point.

No So Super I pretty much agree. The draft won't work as players have options outside the NRL (League in the UK, Rugby in Australia/NZ/UK/Japan/Europe/UK) . Drafts only work in sports where the financial incentives in those leagues are too strong compared to other leagues (think US major sports) or leagues that are so insular that their players skills are not transferable to other sports so their stuck in those codes (think AFL). You don't see a soccer/league/rugby draft as they are world games with many leagues that players can choose from. Transfer periods are demeaning to the code/club/players/intelligent fans as players are traded/bartered like cattle at a poor regional sale yard (i.e. "I'll give you my this prime cow for one of your store cows and one of your yearling picks''). It's embarrassing to all involved and sounds like the old slave trade boats heading into South Carolina in the late 1770s and early 1800s. Sad. Instead of thinking about it from ''a fans point of view", lets think of it from ''a players point of view''. It's their career, and in most cases, not that long a career. We as fans can change employers/jobs in what, 1 week, 2 weeks, 4 weeks notice? Senior executives 3, 6 or 12 months (whilst having that time off waiting). Why can't players choose their future/employers as far as possible into the future? I've got no issue with a talented 18yo rookie today signing multiple contracts with NRL club A for the 2018-20 seasons, Super Rugby team B and the ARU for seasons 2021-2022, then NRL team C for 2023-2025 securing their next 8 years of employment and financial future. Good on them. Nice and transparent. And if another team or code want that player (who is keen to move) they pay out the contract plus additional agreed costs to that club. No issue. I'm happy to have NRL teams finalised by 30 June each season (no more additions), it works well. Not many players of note change clubs pre 30 June anyway, it's usually fringe players seeking better opportunities and covering injuries in squads. The AFL system lacks transparency (think Jake Lever and Adelaide Crows this year, many fans blame his non-committal to the club and ongoing speculation on his future to the clubs poor grand final performance, then post grand final he announces that his manager has negotiated a 4 year deal with Melbourne, despite a trade still needing to be done (which it was eventually)) This lack of transparency has many AFL fans getting disillusioned as they know deals are done, but not announced (and the lack of questioning by the very poor quality AFL journos who are too scared to ask tough questions skirted around). I think the NRL system is way better for all involved compared to the AFL system, but could be improved further by signing deals well into the future that are announced and transparent to fans. Also, all the non-stop media attention around NRL players changing clubs is part of the soap opera, it's great, it doesn't detract from the on-field action which is pretty darn great to watch.

Nat , anyone can see that many factors influence the result of a game including player , coaches and ref mistakes. Is that clear ? It is my position and always has been, what other logical position can anyone take? It is people putting words in your mouth that causes the temper to rise. It applies to my team or any other team. Even more is the hypocrisy. It was stated by many that Newcastle lost a game to Manly due to a refs mistake 20 minutes out from the end of a game. The same people were then saying that refs don't cost teams games and good teams win anyway when its Manly , it's all there in black and white. One bloke did it in one article, directly contradicted himself. Why would I respect the views of people who can't stick to one story? A whole herd of Manly "supporters" descended on me when I asked a so called valuable long term poster to clarify his prediction that we were heading towards the wooden spoon unless Api and a couple of others were put in reserve grade for the season. I thought his certainty on the matter was ridiculous and I said so. It doesn't matter that I was then abused and ridiculed, I don't follow the mob I use my own brain. If you believe in the notion of a turning point in a game then you believe that turning point can involve an incorrect call from the ref. That is my only point of debate on the ref controversy and it is a fairly simple point to me. I don't have to ramble on about Tom T dropping the ball or anything else as it is my personal belief based on years of watching the game. If you can't see that then there is no point debating

No worries Jeffrey. I only touched on the Brisbane example because I am openly Bronco biased but I view these from a corporate position. Broncos have a premier brand based on success and professionalism and that's what corporate's want to be involved with. You can register your interest in support or sponsorship but due to their popularity it is prohibitively expensive, that's why their jersey sponsors are big, national companies. However, a TPA can be sought to use a player for promotional gigs - for a cost. You cannot use the broncos brand but you can use the players name and their association to the club. This is organised through the players managers. If you think of the Smith/Slater ads, do they wear storm brands? Don't have to because we know who they are, hence the comment on Glenn's examples.

Greg, if that's the pseudonym you are using these days, you were argued with so intensely because you went nuts after Manly lost their final game. You chose to ignore every other fact bar a few bad calls. Plus from my recollection, it was you who started with the personal insults. If you remember, I actually supported you until started right off on a range of tangents. That said, you do seem to have calmed down significantly and become more well balanced in recent weeks. I'm open to argument, you are on here nearly everyday, you would have read them, especially around TPAs and a quick review of my comments sections will offer all you need to read. What I have said above and below, is people who do not do their research on a subject form a position based on an assumption. I would have let Glenn's view go if not for a few poor examples trying to establish his point.

Thanks for the detail Nat. It wasn't clear what your objections were. The only comment I would make in reply is in relation to the Broncos. I believe that Brisbane has an unfair advantage over all other NRL clubs. Brisbane may have only half the population of Sydney, but it has only one club seeking corporate support.

Hmm other sports seem to be able to manage the same situation. So if you've clearly not looked very hard Plus good luck on the restraint of trade here.

What you like Jeffrey, his contradictions between TPAs and the Smith/ Slater example. Only big money contacts come from CBD companies and Roosters only? Melbourne are a one team town with only 9 x AFL clubs, 2 x A-League clubs and population base approx 20% less than Sydney. Brisbane has 1/2 the population base Sydney and 40% of registered companies. I've done my research and the "I think & It's Unfair" argument based around TPA's shows a clear lack of research and understanding. Every club has the same opportunity.

I agree with you J.D , Nat needs to actually make a point of some sort instead of declaring a superior position and not opening himself to debate. It's a funny thing and I'll be hypocritical here to some extent, when I have in the past entered into a serious debate with someone on here or on my clubs forum I have found it to be largely futile. Why is that so? If you start winning the debate you start copping abuse or if you are winning clearly they usually disappear. History proved me to be correct on the debates I was having on my clubs forum very clearly yet the lynch mob descends on you and all you are doing is fending off the attacks. This site is much better yet I have wondered at times if people wish to debate an issue then a little bit of structure could be applied and the typical nonsense of misqouting and not debating the actual issue can be minimised. I could be delusional.

Can't limit TPA's, you can't restrict an individuals income