I was lucky to attend Suncorp Stadium on Saturday when the Queensland Reds rewarded a vocal crowd of around 12,000 faithful supporters by defeating the Super Rugby runners-up for the previous two years, the Lions.
Nobody expected the win by this young Queensland side against such capable opposition. However, by the way many rugby followers from Queensland and elsewhere in Australia were carrying on, the Reds might have had a chance had Queensland coach Brad Thorn not left former fly half Quade Cooper off the team.
In the last week or two even Australian rugby luminaries such as Tim Horan and Alan Jones have publicly opined that Thorn is getting it all wrong in leaving the prodigal son out of the Reds. After all, Quade has been the Reds for to a lot of people for the last decade, and nobody had got around to thinking of a plan B for when 30-year-old eventually retires or when a new coach, like Thorn, had different ideas about what he wanted from his ten.
Hence trying a couple of new fly halves and running up against a few hurdles appears like a catastrophe for the Reds and has led to the panicked calls for Quade’s return from a couple of people who should know better.
As it turns out, this group of eminent rugby personalities have ended up with egg on their faces. Thorn, arguably the greatest dual code rugby footballer ever, did absorb some useful ideas about coaching while ensconced for two decades in the winning cultures of the 1990s and 2000s Brisbane Broncos, the Queensland rugby league team, the Kangaroos, the Canterbury Crusaders and the All Blacks.
(AAP Image/Dave Hunt)
That said, I am sure that Horan and Jones, who just seem keen for Australian rugby to get back to the glory days of when they were directly involved in the game, would be happy to concede the point that Thorn might know what he is doing.
I am not so sure about the motivations of the noisy hordes of Queensland rugby dilettantes who are currently having a collective hissy fit about Quade’s exclusion. It seems to me that this mob like the Reds when they win but liked it even more when Quade did fancy Harlem Globetrotters-esque tricks with the ball, hence their disappointment that the Reds have notched up a decent win playing ‘rugby’ without Quadey – it reduces the chance of him being recalled.
I use the parentheses around the name of the game for the benefit of the dilettantes, so that they don’t get their football codes mixed up. I think these folk may have ‘rugby’ mixed up another game that involves more kicking and jumping. I suspect that a lot of them took a wrong turn trying to get to the Gabba in 2011 and accidentally ended up at Suncorp while Quade was playing at his most entertaining and never left.
Until the Reds next lose a game I am not expecting to hear much from the ping pong rugby crowd apart from the occasional mutterings about how the Reds losing a game with Quade is more entertaining than unexpectedly beating the Lions. Then when there is a loss, the whingers will gleefully take to the internet to let us all know that Thorn was wrong all along.
(Jono Searle/Getty Images)
But you know what? I don’t really care about the whingers, because my team won today playing rugby. You know, the code where we have the glorious 21-year-old, 135-kilogram Tongan called ‘Thor’ who can outrun the entire team over ten metres and make hardened South African looseheads reconsider their life choices come scrum time.
Rugby, where we can replace substitute Thor and his loosehead with identical twins called The Smiths, who make the opposing front row think that they have been hit so hard by Thor that they are seeing double.
Rugby, where we have replaced brittle defenders at fly half with steely-eyed, chiselled-jawed lads from Toowoomba called Hamish, who put in 13 bone-rattling tackles during a game and still managed to stride up the middle of the park to set their team up for a try.
It’s rugby, and if you don’t like it, go and find another code of football that it less physical and more aerial. There are enough Queenslanders who love rugby for what it is and want their team to win.
John R
Roar Guru
Might wanna check the warranty on that Crystal Ball aye champ. LOL
Gepetto
Guest
Brad doesn't know where he is going. A man can take a lot of head knocks during a very very long football career at the top level. Quade is a better player than all the players Brad has given the #10 and#15 jerseys to this year.
ThugbyFan
Guest
G'day Hoy, I honestly don't know why Q.Cooper was cut nor the rationale behind the timing of the chop. When I 1st read of it, way back in December, I thought (a) well he has 10 weeks to find a new SR franchise or OS club (b) the sudden cut after the Reds had announced he was in their SR2018 squad (and still is on their website as a squad member) made me think there likely has been bad words between coach Thorn and QC or some attitude problems and (c) could the Reds afford to pay him out as they were skint? I still believe there are personal issues behind it rather than QC's playing abilities as Thorn doesn't want QC near the joint, even as a (very well) paid adviser to the up-n-coming new kids on the block. But at the end of the day, I along with 99.999% of the Roarers don't know and am reading tea leaves. :)
Train Without A Station
Roar Guru
But ultimately you're just unhappy that your completely baseless speculation is less credible when I add in the prospect of some considerations that teams should have. You're happy to speculate that teams have money just left (for what reason) and just don't want him, but then take offence to me proposing that a team has allocated their salary cap prior to the season.
Train Without A Station
Roar Guru
Professional sport is about playing the averages. Not just in case. Nathan Charles would likely be an outside the cap injury replacement. He's also on a short term contract, so even if they signed him for an exorbitant $300k per year, that still works out as only $75k until the end of the season if he stays that long.
Train Without A Station
Roar Guru
How often to players become available in December? Why on earth would you leave space in your cap when it's highly unlikely players will become available? And what if they don't? Just go without? Any team wants to lock their best squad in as soon as possible.
riddler
Guest
have you seen those numbers? maybe they do have space.. you are just assuming that they don't or have been poorly managed.. maybe they didn't actually want to spend all of their allotment for various other possible reasons.. everything on here from everyone, myself included is just speculation.. just that some of us speculate a little closer to reality and without that snarky i know more than you attitude, that some of us do..
Ken Catchpole’s Other Leg
Guest
Benno, I wish I wrote that. You have described a sensible scenario in an entertaining way. I like Thorn. I like what he is doing with the Reds defence and character. But he has made a big risky call by in deleting 800k of resource in the team’s arsenal. So far the argument for his decision has included (apart from the positives I mentioned above) - “he is right because he’s Brad Thorn. Look at his playing record!” Which is a lousy premise in a coaching/selection argument. Of course there is the obvious but mostly silent part of this - he wasn’t just a legend. He was an AB legend. I like Thorn as a coach and as a person. I also happen to like Cooper as a player and a Wallaby. He has said and done silly things some time ago now. He has (apart from the insanity of a high tackle habit) had a clean record since his maturing. Few people ever have to endure the public abuse he did at that World Cup (and which continued for several years) from the nation of his birth. He has held himself well after his mistakes. Much better than those from his birthplace who insulted (and who still insult) him. Some NZers have a special piece of illogical vitriol waiting to vent on Quade whenever his name is mentioned. And a number of Australians also share an illogical criticism of his unique skill set. The kid deserves a fairer go He didn’t get one in 201.And Cheika denied him a fair go in 2015. And now we have a Super coach explaining his dropping with riddles and mealy mouthed umm’s and ahh’s. Australia can ill afford to lose any quality 10, let alone their best one. Nicholas Bishop and Harry Jones are amongst the neutral observers who have expressed surprise at the Cheika’s and Thorn’s choices to overlook him. I have been waiting at least three years for an argument to the contrary that includes clear logic without prejudice. Hitherto I have waited in vain.
Ken Catchpole’s Other Leg
Guest
Good point Hoy. We may see a Beale Kerevi 10/12 combo in gold if Foley needs a rest.
Hurles
Roar Rookie
Ahh, so they started it Tman. Either way it’s a reasonable question to be asking considering the Reds performances this year, especially regarding the back line and playmaking struggles. Why can questions not be asked by professionals in the game? It’s just a little boring to read an article assuming it’s about a great Reds win, only to find 3 sentences in that it’s another anti Quade rant. QC isn’t even in the squad. It’s 1 win, and one they only just got away with. I’d be waiting to see if they can back it up before I got in my high horse. Pretty sure Tim Horan and Alan Jones have a credible background for opinion on Rugby. After one win I’ll assume the egg on their face comment was a bit of trolling. I hope Thorn can pull all this together because I’m tired of watching my team be competition easy beats.
tsuru
Roar Rookie
TWAS, that's an interesting statement. And this is a genuine question, not rhetorical: Would a team set aside a certain amount of money for unforeseen circumstances? Maybe not to cover paying a high salaried player, but enough to get, say, Nathan Charles mid-season as the Rebels have done. I wonder what sort of eventuality they would plan for.
Train Without A Station
Roar Guru
You reckon the fact that those teams filled their squads and salary caps, thus not having much money to offer is at all a factor? Any team that has a lot of money to play with in December is a team that has planned very poorly.
Kirky
Roar Rookie
Leg! Agree with you re Tim Horan, I wouldn't go as far as saying he was the best ever in his possie', but by crikey he was up there and certainly the best Australia has had! Brilliant 2nd five or Centre, he'd have made the Al Blacks!
Taylorman
Guest
Perhaps, then why are none of the teams, who arent winning a lot, falling over backwards to take him? Do we know for a fact that Queensland have refused offers actually made? I havent heard of any. If that is the case, you could be wrong.
Kirky
Roar Rookie
jamesswm!! You'd like to think you're right mate but I don't think so as there's not much wrong with the Blues scrum, they're just not doing the business, but they're like the other four Kiwi sides, they won't want to be the first team beaten by an Aussie side, ~ they'll play mate don't worry as there's players in that team that most teams would kill for and sooner or later they'll put it together, I can see it happening!
Kirky
Roar Rookie
Mzilikazi! They didn't go out of South Africa for 13 games and played nine of those games on their home track! ~ So it was an obvious jackup, not once, but twice as it happened the year before also, who wouldn't like to have that sort of draw twice in a row? It was all for nothing as they got their butts well and truly kicked both times in the Final anyway! This Season they haven't got such a luxury and they've had to get out and about and it shows because very likely at this stage of the Competition last two Super Seasons they'd have played last weekends game against the Reds on the Lions patch in front of around 60/70 thousand South African fans! ~ No thanks! I think they're probably the best South African team though!
piru
Roar Rookie
Oi, what? Where did that come from?
PeterK
Roar Guru
all they had to do is lose 1 and they would not have topped the table
Brett McKay
Expert
JP, I've not changed/deleted/edited anything. All my 2017 articles on accessible from my profile page. I found them in less than a minute. I've got a reasonable idea of the conversation you're talking about, and I'm even pretty sure it doesn't carry anything like the meaning you seem to think it does. In fact, I'm even pretty sure it wasn't with you - unless you're one of these poor internet forum souls who jumps from one anonymous handle to the next? But given you quoted me directly, I presume you have the quote ready to go. How did you quote me yesterday if you now can't find the source? Burden of proof is firmly on you, champ.
Taylorman
Guest
Thankfully for you and your team the coach disagrees with you.