While the NRL coaching merry-go-round has dominated headlines of late, Ivan Cleary’s return to the Panthers is perhaps the most peculiar.
Phil Gould’s original five-year plan to deliver the Penrith a premiership began with Cleary as head coach.
Despite reaching a preliminary final in 2014, an injury-hit 2015 season saw the Panthers slump to 11th place, leading Gould to sack Cleary in favour of former Broncos coach Anthony Griffin.
Griffin took the club to three top-eight finishes, but they were unable to make an impact in each of those finals series. Ultimately, Gould’s five-year plan to win a grand final failed.
One major positive though, was a talented young halfback named Nathan Cleary.
Both Nathan and his father, Ivan, publicly expressed their desire to work together on multiple occasions. The problem was, Ivan was midway through a multi-year contract as head coach of the Wests Tigers, while the Panthers viewed Nathan as the player which they wanted to build the future of their club around.
Rumours became rife that Nathan would leave the Panthers in order to play under his father at the Tigers, which left Gould and his board in a difficult predicament.
Phil Gould (Photo: Tony Feder/Getty Images)
It was clear that the only way to keep Nathan was to lure his father back to the club, which brought about a bizarre set of circumstances.
Firstly, Gould went on record to state the club wouldn’t stand in Nathan’s way if he wanted to play for his father. Then, four weeks out from the finals and with the Panthers sitting fifth on the ladder, Gould sensationally sacked Griffin, leading to speculation he was making room for Ivan to return.
In the weeks that followed, Gould consistently delivered cryptic messages and seemingly looked to mislead the media in an effort to hide the fact he was chasing the services of Ivan.
Ivan had stated that he intended to see out his Tigers contract and agreed to join the Panthers on a three-year deal from 2021. However, the Tigers felt it was in their best interest to grant the coach an immediate release, allowing him to join Penrith from next year.
Now that Gould has got his man, many questions need to be answered.
Was the sole purpose of re-hiring a sacked former coach simply to retain Nathan? If not, what changes to team culture or coaching philosophy will Ivan bring to the club that were lacking during his first stint?
Ivan’s coaching career thus far has seen him rebuild struggling clubs from the bottom up, recruiting players, handing youngsters their debuts and developing team culture, but his return to the foot of the mountains presents a different challenge.
Because Penrith don’t need a rebuild.
Ivan is inheriting a very talented and experienced roster that has reached the finals for the past three seasons, along with high expectations within the club and a supporter base which is demanding success.
So the pressure is on to not only deliver a premiership, which Gould’s plan failed to produce, but to ensure his son becomes the player to lead the Panthers to success for the next decade.
This must be the last throw of the dice for Gould, who many hold solely responsible for the club underachieving during his tenure.
If the purpose of signing Ivan to a five-year deal was to keep Nathan at the club, then results should lie squarely at the feet of Gould and he must be sacked if Ivan fails to deliver.
Adz Sportz
Roar Guru
Spot on Cadfael, which is why if Ivan fails, the board need to grow some balls and sack Gould.
JN
Roar Rookie
I'm pretty sure by now the Roosters have a plan when Politis leaves. Mark Bouris is probably next in line, and he is a very successful businessman just like Politis. And if Trent loses his mojo and is sacked, the roosters have the influence to draw in another high-quality coach, or as they did with Robinson, bring in a coach with a lot of potential.
Cadfael
Roar Guru
The whole purpose of signing Ivan was to keep the boy at Penrith. Ivan didn't set the world on fire at the Tigers or earlier at the Panthers so 1) don't expect a great improvement at Penrith and 2) expect Gould to absolve himself of any blame if Penrith falter.
Jacko
Guest
When did the Warriors let him go? They didnt let him go...he walked....He tried blackmailing them into extending his rein 18 mths before he was off contract. He is a low life and when he signed with the tigers i told a mate of mine who is a tigers supporter that he would leave as soon as he got a better offer...6 mths later he is still a low life and reneged on that deal. And he is a failure as a coach...Not 1 success anywhere in over 300 games...His word is worth zero..
Adz Sportz
Roar Guru
That's fair enough. You make some valid points!
BA Sports
Roar Guru
When it comes time to move a club out of Sydney by merger, relocation or dissolving them - and that time will come - will the number of premierships matter, or the financial strength of the club, its infrastructure and structure of its football program matter? Ask Souths if premierships mattered when they got cut in 1998. Ask St George and Balmain if premierships mattered when they both had to merge... You can't be successful if you don't exist anymore. Of all the Sydney clubs Penrith is (now) by far the strongest and safest of any Sydney club. Of course Penrith would love to have a Premiership under their belt in the last few seasons, every club would. But the Roosters are built on Nick Politis and a coach, Trent Robinson, two men. When Politis goes (an he can't live for ever), the Roosters have big issues. And when Robinson gets poached - and history suggests he will sooner or later, the coaching philosophy goes. The Panthers are now built to withstand human resource changes.
LF
Guest
As someone who knows Mark well in a working level...what an ignorant comment from a “specatator” who thinks of himself obviously much more. Tell me what about Mark is not leading to success of where he has been or where he is going? Also, let me know your qualifications to make this claim? I’m all ears “BA sports”
The Barry
Roar Guru
Im not suggesting Robinson sat on his hands and did nothing but to compare the Roosters “rebuild” from 16 to what Gus has had to do at the Panthers is a bit disingenuous. Again, I think you’re using an anomaly season like the Cowboys in 17 to make a point. More often than not teams lose key personnel for extended periods and they struggle. That the Cowboys did so well was what made it a fairytale. Coming into 2016 the Roosters had offloaded Maloney, Jennings and RTS and then on top of that had co-vice captains JWH and Cordner our for half the season and Pearce was suspended for the first eight weeks. The Roosters were minor premiers in 13, 14, 15 and had shocker of a 16, were runners up in 17 and minor premiers in 18. The Roosters didn’t have a bad 2016 and then respond...their approach all the way through has been to turn over players and bring new ones in. If anything 2016 was more of the rebuild year than the catalyst for a rebuild. As for Penrith’s juniors we agree that Gould has done incredibly well but that was my point he needed to build those development pathways. I think I misinterpreted your previous post to suggest Gould didn’t need to do anything about the juniors as the next generation would come through anyway and he should just sign a couple of superstars. But I think you’re saying he should have done both. Anyway, I don’t think signing a couple of superstars is as easy as you’re suggesting. Superstars aren’t on the market often and when they are, they rarely go to teams that are a front office mess and have had no on field success. Cronk and Tedesco didn’t sign with the Titans or the Tigers or the Warriors. It’s like saying Nathan Brown should have just signed a couple of superstars. It just doesn’t work that way. He had to sign the Heighington’s and Lillyman’s and work up from there. You’ve got to start the rebuild to show the stars there’s something they can add to. I’d suggest that any unsuccessful/struggling clubs who say “we’ll just sign a couple of superstars and we’ll be right” are doomed for failure.
Adz Sportz
Roar Guru
Barry, I can partly agree with your assessment about the Roosters. It wasn't so much as the quantity of changes they made, but the quality of their changes. Bringing Luke Keary and Michael Gordon to the club was a masterstroke, as they were a major factor in the Roosters turning their form around, as well as the rise of Latrell Mitchell. You could also attribute Trent Robinson's ability to evolve as a coach and make subtle changes to their playing structures. But to blame their 2016 debacle on missing players is a bit of a cop out excuse, because by that logic, the 2017 Cowboys side should never have made the grand final with all the injuries they had. As far as knowing the next generation of local juniors are ready to step up, well check this... in 2012, only 5 Penrith players in their 25 player roster were local juniors. In 2018, 24 players out of their 30 player squad are local juniors. The one positive to come out of Gould's five-year plan, is the next generation will in fact, happen. And that's not an assumption.
The Barry
Roar Guru
That 15th place finish is a bit of a furphy. The finished there because Pearce had his pre season incident and Cordner and JWH were missing for the first 8-10 weeks of the season. They lost something like 9 of their first 10 and weren’t ever able to bounce back. They didn’t make massive changes between 16 and 17 and finished second in the MP and got within a game of the GF. The made far more changes between 17 and 18. “knowing that the development of next generation local juniors were ready to step up when the time was right” That’s what the Panthers were doing for 10+ years pre-Gould and had probably rested on their junior nursery laurels since their golden age in the early 90s. It’s a massive mistake to just assume that the next generation will just happen. I don’t think Gus is the great saviour but I generally think he deserves a lot more credit than he tends to get. I agree to a point about him being accountable if things go pear shaped with Cleary.
Adz Sportz
Roar Guru
Hi Randy, I agree with you. For Ivan, all he wants to do is coach his son. If the opportunity arouse for Nathan to go to the Tigers, Ivan definitely would have stayed or better yet, if another club like the Broncos picked up Nathan, Ivan would have tried to follow on some kind of package deal. I certainly believe the only reason Penrith re-hired Ivan, was to ensure Nathan stayed at the club.
Adz Sportz
Roar Guru
I see your point. I still believe it was unprofessional as it wasn't fair on the West Tigers, nor is it a good look for the game. But you are correct that Penrith had every right to go after him, as there are no rules in place from preventing that from happening. If they do see other benefits in Ivan coaching, does that mean they didn't see those benefits before they sacked him in 2015? Perhaps his achievement of dragging the Tigers up from the bottom of the barrel changed their minds. Either way, results are now required.
Adz Sportz
Roar Guru
Ethan Z made a good point with comparing the Panthers strategy to what the Roosters have done. The Roosters don't have a junior base, reserve grade base and a centre of excellence. Their prime focus is the first grade team and winning premierships. They finished 15th in 2016, made the necessary changes and won the comp 2 years later. Perhaps Gould's five-year plan would have been better off being a ten-year plan and put more of an emphasis on on-field results for the first grade team, even if it meant a short term fix by buying superstar players to win comps, knowing that the development of next generation local juniors were ready to step up when the time was right.
Adz Sportz
Roar Guru
Hi BA Sports, thanks for your feedback. Everyone has an opinion on the five-year plan and you make some very valid points. I also believe the end game was to win a comp, but when the first grade side was struggling in 2015, to quote Gould, he told the Daily Telegraph that his the five-year plan was running several years behind schedule which says to me, that his five-year plan obviously involved on-field success for the first grade team. Not sure about all his decisions requiring board approval though. If you believe Anthony Griffin, he said all decisions made were made by Gould or required approval from Gould, which basically means he was running the club from his position as Football Manager. Unfortunately all of Gould's success with the junior base, reserve grades, centre of excellence, sponsors etc hasn't had an effect on the first grade team. IMO, re-hiring Cleary is his last throw of the dice.
Adz Sportz
Roar Guru
Everyone has an opinion on the five-year plan. I also believe the end game was to win a comp, but when the first grade side was struggling in 2015, to quote Gould, he told the Daily Telegraph that his the five-year plan was running several years behind schedule which says to me, that his five-year plan obviously involved on-field success for the first grade team.
Adz Sportz
Roar Guru
4 weeks out from finals and running 5th, with the top 4 well within reach when Griffin was sacked. They didn't improve under Ciraldo. IMO, Gould really dragged the club through the mud with his handling of the whole situation. Panthers players and fans deserved better. Again, this is what the article is all about, not the "five-year plan".
The Barry
Roar Guru
I don’t agree that a premiership is the only metric to determine if a strategy is working. It’s the end goal but it’s not the only measurement. It’s all well and good saying it’s eight years but 2-3 of those years were a genuine rebuild and the Panthers were not a realistic premiership shot and they’ve made the eight four years out of the past five. I think things could definitely have been handled better. In Gould’s Erin the Panthers coaches have been Elliott, Georgallis, Cleary, Griffin, Ciraldo, Cleary...it’s pretty tough to build stability with that...albeit that two of those were ‘interim’ coaches. This is also probably the third generation of players that the Panthers are “building their future around” since Gus took over.
Emcie
Roar Guru
Hmm, consistantly good, able to quickly recover from a bad year, one of the most stable clubs in the game with the best facilities, were you trying to prove my point?
BA Sports
Roar Guru
Parramatta just did an 'extensive search' for a Head of Football and came up with Mark O'Neill.. If that is the calibre of people out there, I would stick with Gus!
Zavjalova
Roar Rookie
Look at the roosters. They won the comp in '13. Had a few good years then slumped to 15th in 2016. That was unacceptable so they made the necessary changes and they won a comp just 2 years later. For the Roosters, its all about premierships. Nothing less. Same with the Storm. Anything but a premiership is considered a failure. 2 clubs with very high standards. I don't buy in to these arguments being made by others.