Amateur senior rugby has deep roots but may wither on the vine

Well said I agree 100% the minute our administrators and leaders of the game they play in heaven realize this truth the sooner a plan to evolve into a more appealing product can be produced Shame on you RA and the ones that preceded you for letting this happen on your watch

Sure. I agree that RA places an emphasis on rugby programs (of various types) and that to an extent, the numbers of people participating in these mask the decline in numbers playing 15-a-side in traditional club/schools competitions. So yes, that's a serious issue for the game in itself. However, as hard as it is for all of us who have grown up and come through traditional clubs, and inherently understand those competition structures, we need to get used to the fact that younger people are, in increasing numbers, demonstrating that they are not prepared to commit to whole seasons of training and home and away matches every week. As I stressed in my piece, this problem is not unique to rugby, it is affecting participation in all sports and leisure activities. Is it better to devise shorter term programs that young people are more likely to engage with, or cling blindly to the hope that they'll play the game exactly as we used to do? As uncomfortable as it sounds, it has to be the former, while retaining regular 15-a-side pathways existing for the elite players. I know there is a belief that by quoting program participation, RA is trying to 'fudge' the numbers. I'd suggest that they're merely reflecting today's reality.

Another issue which has been overlooked in recent years is the changing demographics arising from immigration, particularly from non-rugby playing countries. I acknowledge the importance of Subbies as being the true “grass roots” of Rugby, but the reality is that the Premier club competitions in each state from Colts through to First Grade, particularly in NSW and QLD, are the established pathways for talented players seeking higher honours. I have been a life-long supporter of Shute Shield club Eastwood and still attend home and away games every week and will continue to do so, regardless of their fortunes. Over the last couple of decades, they have been one of the power houses of Shute Shield Rugby, along with Sydney University, having won half a dozen premierships. However, changing demographics in its core catchment area of Eastwood/Epping with a higher concentration of Asian immigrants has decimated its junior recruitment with some junior clubs having to amalgamate to survive. It’s telling that in spite of its past success, there is only one player, Damien Fitzpatrick, on the Waratah’s roster. The only other player with a Super Rugby contract is Hugh Roach, who has transferred from the Waratah’s to the Rebels. This is a primary reason why the club sold off its T G Millner complex and is planning to relocate its base to North Western Sydney. Whether it will make any difference remains to be seen. The Gordon Rugby club is in a similar situation, with much of its base being eroded because of changing demographics. With such a high concentration of Rugby playing private schools on the North Shore, you’d expect it would continue to be one of the more successful clubs, as it has been in the past, but it has languished at the bottom of the table for the last decade. Something is not right. If it can’t garner support in its heartland, what hope is there for the code as a whole?

@ Geoff Parkes I critiqued papanui's analysis, and yours, on grassroots Union's problems. Do you wish to respond to my criticisms?

@ papanui I disagree with the accuracy of your comments (which seem to be, generally, supportive of RA's grassroots' recruitment efforts). "RA triumphs increases in players, driven through juniors, sevens, and women's participation, which is great news that should be CELEBRATED...I really believe RA is doing the right thing...". The reality is that there has been, in NSW and Qld, over several decades a SIGNIFICANT decline in junior and senior male Union 15's numbers. The populations of Sydney and SE Qld have increased by nearly 100% over the last 40 years. The Wallabies are the "shopfront" of Union in Australia, which drive media interest, Ratings, crowds, finances and general support for Union. The significant decline in males playing 15's Union in NSW and SE Qld is, therefore, ominous for the Wallabies; and the long term future of grassroots Union in Australia. The RA proclaimed 2018 "increases" are mainly fluff numbers They are not Club and school competition 15's players. Over 50% of RA Official Registered playing numbers are NON-contact Union activities eg primary school 5 week Game On (about 77,000), one-off Gala Days, school and other short term community programs. There would also be double-counting of many juniors. The AFL, NRL, FFA, and many other sports, also have a majority of their Official registered players as being involved in short term, non-competition programs. Sevens contact rugby, and female contact rugby, have both had very good growth. In your analysis -and Geoff Parkes' analysis-, you both completely fail to address these very important factors which have contributed to Union's major decline in junior and senior male 15's playing numbers : . fear of injury/one-sided junior games due to the large increase of players from an Islander/Maori background (who are usually much heavier/stronger) playing junior Union. .elite jnr and senior Union and League squads and teams comprise about 45% of players from an Islander or Maori ethnic background (but could have been born in Australia). This is incongruous, as there are only about 278,000 people in Australia of this ethnicity. http://www.devpolicy.org/2016-census-reveal-about-pacific-islands-communities-in-australia-20170928/ This indicates the increasing importance "power/strength/size in elite Union and League"- which is causing a retreat in the number of players from a (smaller) European background wanting to play League and Union. Nicholas Bishop's article today states that international elite Union players are, on average, about 20 kilograms heavier, and 3 inches taller, than their elite counterparts in the 1970's. The "little man" is being belted out of elite Union-but once, there were many. .strong growth of community Australian Football in Sydney (mainly ES, NS, North Shore, inner west, NW) in recent years- which must negatively impact Union's junior and senior contact playing numbers. SMH Union/League/cricket journalist Malcolm Knox in 2018 wrote that "Sydney is an AFL town"; and Daily Telegraph League journalist Paul Kent wrote in 2018 that "AFL has almost a big a footprint in Sydney as rugby league". Many other Union, League, and soccer journalists, and former officials, administrators, and players have written about the recent strong Australian Football growth in Sydney. For their direct quotes on Australian Football in Sydney, with links attached, refer to https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/a-third-team-in-sydney-its-only-a-matter-of-time.1136876/ (The link also has a Daily Telegraph article, in December 2018, on how the NRL, also, is using fluff numbers to disguise the significant decline in Official registered contact League playing numbers) .Sydney Union's stronghold is in a very small number of private schools only. This represents an existential threat, as Union is declining in these schools. Soccer has very strong numbers in all these private schools; and Australian Football, since 2013, has been introduced into these schools, and is also growing (including female private schools).

Yeah. My Subbies club is one of the first division sides with plenty of depth and two colts. I fully appreciate other clubs are doing it tougher. Overall has the competition shrunk? Are there still 6 divisions?

Nice article mate. I think SAR will continue. I haven’t lived in Oz for over a decade but am still connected to both my old Shute Shield and Subbies clubs. Both seem to be in pretty good shape and I don’t see either of them fading away any time soon. I even got down to my nephew’s junior club for a match day and to help out at a training session. What I saw at both filled me with plenty of hope that amateur rugby is not in as bleak a position as I hear on here.

That's essentially the reasoning behind Brett Papworth's association, but at the end of the day it's probably more idealistic than realistic. There'd need to be some level of bureaucracy, which would be a new level, without I'm sure the states wanting to give away any of their power. However the main issue I see (which hopefully was illustrated yesterday), is that the majority of challenges facing the amateur/club game today, come from outside of rugby, as opposed to the particular shortcomings of central administration. That's not to absolve RA of any mistakes, but I don't see how any association of clubs would address those societal, demographic and economic challenges any better than the set up we have already. Sure, it would make people feel better, but even then, probably only for as long as it took for parochialism and in-fighting to kick in.

Aussie Rules has many different levels which helps. When I was on the Gold Coast I could potentially play in 4 different competitions and each of those had a senior and reserve grade. Caters for the aspiring pro all the way to people who can barely catch, kick or run.

Great work PP, some very pertinent observations in there, delivered with real feeling. I certainly don't think RA views what you term SAR as a casualty, far from it, but it's a complex and difficult matter, with many non-rugby factors working against the game, on top of the things they do have more control over. It is clear that strong, clear-thinking leadership is required, but for the game to prosper at this level (at all levels), leadership needs to be complemented by all stakeholders setting aside any parochial agendas they may have, and working together for the greater good of the game. De-politicising if you like. This is happening in some pockets, if it catches on then all may not be lost...

Well sheek, in regards to a PI team in Super Rugby, I can't see that happening, any time soon. The trouble has been as it has been in the past, is controlling finances. Until someone responsible can take this avenue over, & make it work, then perhaps we will see something. But yes I do agree with many of your thoughts. Cheers.

Nice read Papanui, & being a fellow "Mainlander", I do agree with many points. I myself was involved with the Sydney Subbies, in the 80's, & it's still nice to know that it is still classed as the largest competition in the world, as it was then. Hopefully, there has been a few adjustments to their structures, as during my time so much sub's fee's were squandered on harbour cruises, eating out at top Sydney hotels, special rooms, for drinks etc, at receptions, etc etc. A view that I did constantly, object to, on the grounds that young grassroots players were missing out. Like, we had young fella's, apprentices, that wanted to pay their fees off, but, then it was the pay up fully attitude, that stopped many from playing, until they payed. The game, here in Aussie, especially Sydney, does not do enough for grassroots unlike, back home, where we raffles, run stalls, at games & after, seek sponsors, etc etc. That was how we all survived, back then, & even now with our Mitre 10 provinces, it is noticed they seemed to all rely on sponsors, as shown on their gear.

PP, Your thoughtful comments require many more responses, but perhaps everyone is just over these topics. I wasn't going to respond at all, but felt you deserved someone to break the duck of your article. I thought I once knew the right structure, but I'm struggling to care anymore, & another generation of people with entirely money driven views are holding the ascendency. The reality is that money drives every professional sport, yet amateurs still make up the majority of player participants. In association football, despite its obscene wealth at the top, the sport seems to have found a way to manage both the professional & amateur arms. Australian football also seems to have found the right mix. In NFL, as far as I understand it, there's not much else to do if you don't make one of the 32 franchises. NFL is the ultimate glory or bust dream. It seems American football is such a brutal sport, people don't want to play it just for the love. A similar argument might be put forward for rugby league. I feel the hierarchy of domestic structures in Australian rugby shouldn't be difficult to work out or attain. But unfortunately, people with their own agendas have torn it this way & that. I think Australian rugby & southern hemisphere rugby, had it mostly right back in 1995, the year before professionalism. Australia had only two senior provinces which they obviously retired to build on. The other good thing was the creation of The Rugby Championship, although a Pacific islands team should be part of the thought process. Back then, the Super 10 was the equivalent of a Champion's Cup, with provinces qualifying via their domestic comps. It was still the best structure in my view. At the grassroots level, you progressed from juniors to secondary schools. On leaving school, you had a choice between the aspirational district premier rugby (today's pros) pathway, or the recreational subbies & regional (today's amateurs) pathway. That's the best I can do at present. I hope you can get other responses.