Gaelic football vs Aussie Rules: Is there a connection?

By Aligee / Roar Rookie

Gaelic or Irish football has historical references to around the 14th century, so this article in no way claims that Australians invented the game – but a case can be made that the Australian game helped in the codifying of the Gaelic game. Here’s how.

We all know that the first rules of the game of Australian football were written in 1858 and that by the 1860s thousands of men were playing it. It was very popular with miners on the Victorian goldfields in particular, but by the late 1860s a huge gold rush took place in the Thames area in New Zealand, prompting many thousands of miners to leave Victoria to try their luck over the Tasman. Many were either Irish or sons of Irish miners, and at one stage 18,000 miners were at the Thames.

At that time in New Zealand the Catholic archbishop was Irishman Thomas Croke. Three years of his 1870-75 tenure were spent travelling extensively, including to the Thames region due to the huge Irish population there. He also made visits to Melbourne, including one on 8 June 1872, when Carlton were playing Melbourne in a VFA game. Croke, an avid sports fan, returned to Ireland in 1875 – via Melbourne. Is it possible he saw the Australian game in both New Zealand and Melbourne? Perhaps he even picked up a set of the Victorian rules, which were rewritten in 1866. I think he did.

Ireland in the late 1870s and 1880s was going through a period of great nationalism, and by 1885 the Irish Parliamentary Party had won 86 seats in the 336-seat House of Commons and called for self-government from the British. What better way of promoting patriotic nationalism than by unifying or codifying the sports through the country?

Gaelic football, hurling, handball and other Irish games were all played in different ways in different counties, and by uniting the sports through common rules, Irish nationalism could be promoted to halt the spread of the recently codified English games of rugby and soccer, which had become popular in certain parts of the country.

On 1 November 1884 a group of Irishmen gathered in the Hayes Hotel billiard room to formulate a plan and establish an organisation to foster and preserve Ireland’s unique games and athletic pastimes. The Gaelic Athletic Association (GAA) was founded, and guess who was the first patron of the GAA? Sports enthusiast Archbishop Thomas Croke, whom Croke Park in Dublin is named after.

So where did the rules for the codification of Gaelic Football come from? Considering all counties had different versions of rules, have no doubt that the rules of the codified rugby and soccer games would be used as a template – after all, they were English and England was the enemy, although some people claim Gaelic football is a combination of rugby and soccer.

Aaron Dunne, an Irish sports writer and historian, suggests that the first codified rules of Gaelic football were extremely similar to the rewritten 1866 Australian Rules regulations. He states that the similarities between the ten founding rules of Gaelic football and the 1866 revised rules of Australian football were plain for all to see.

Dunne says that the only real differences between the 1866 Aussie Rules regulations and those of Gaelic football lay in minor alterations to restart rules. It’s also worth noting that until 1910 Gaelic football was played with goal and behind posts – behind posts were first used in the Australian game in 1866 and up until 1910 a goal was worth five points and a behind one in the Irish game.

(AAP Image/Tracey Nearmy)

The similarities were striking:

So how would the newly formed GAA get their hands on the 1866 rules of Australian Rules football? GAA patron Thomas Croke of course.

A couple of people who saw Gaelic football in the 1900s commented on the similarity between the codes. A rugby footballer visiting Great Britain in 1911 “saw a good deal of the Gaelic game, which is very similar to Australian rules, the main differences being that a soccer ball is used, the ball must be bounced every three yards, and a cross-bar is used on the goal posts.”

Another find, from 1912: “The Gaelic game of Ireland, in some features, resembles the Australian game. It is played 17 aside, and goals and points are scored, as are goals and behinds in Australia, though in the Gaelic game a goal counts for only three points” – remembering of course that prior to 1910 Gaelic goals were worth five instead of three points.

Even the great Australian footballer and cricketer Jack Worrall had an opinion in 1926: “I have always understood that there is a great resemblance between our game and the Irish one – which is called Gaelic – it appears that the similarity is remarkable, the principal difference being that they play with a round ball, while the ball we use is allied to the one played in the Rugby code.”

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“The evolution of all games is interesting, and none more so than ours. I was speaking to the father of the game (Mr HCA Harrison) last Saturday, and the news that our code somewhat resembled the Irish one rather surprised him.

“The desire of Mr Harrison and his cousin TW Wills was to improve upon rugby, and that they succeeded is a matter of history. But when our game was in its infancy the desire was for a round ball – why, I know not – but as it was not procurable they got a rugby one instead.”

In 1866 Australian Rules football was played with usually a round ball. The use of a rugby size two ball was implemented in 1877 by the VFA and the Sherrin didn’t come until the 1880s.

So there we have it. There’s certainly no smoking gun or written proof, but it’s a pretty strong theory, so while Irish migration to Australia probably saw an impact of Irish folk football or versions of Gaelic football on our native game, the very early codification of our game may have influenced the Irish to do the same thing by borrowing from our rules.

The Crowd Says:

2019-11-11T23:55:10+00:00

Munro Mike

Roar Rookie


Melbourne Football Club was established 7th August 1858. The rules committee met Tuesday afternoon 17th May 1859. In 1859 membership to the MFC was limited expressly to members of the MCC. After that, it was opened up.

AUTHOR

2019-03-01T23:59:47+00:00

Aligee

Roar Rookie


I have no doubt the Irish could put a very competitive AFLX team together, i think there is 13 or so Irishman on AFL lists this year.

AUTHOR

2019-03-01T23:56:06+00:00

Aligee

Roar Rookie


Lennon does not have an opinion on Croke and the theory that he bought back copies of the 1866 or 1874 rules of AF, he may well have not even heard of the theory in 1998, but compares the sets of rules and makes observations, observations that exceed the boundary of coincidence IMO, that is not to say the only influence was AF - clearly not, but the influence of our rules makes sense when looking at 1880's Ireland in a cultural and political light as well.

2019-03-01T10:37:20+00:00

Leonard

Guest


The whole thread is interesting. Exploring one's history can be both enlightening and useful. Congrats to all. Very interesting that the future Archbishop Croke was Down Under before the codification of Gaelic football. Maybe future GAA / AFL matches should be more like the AFLX game?

2019-03-01T01:24:08+00:00

Munro Mike

Roar Rookie


#Aligee Nice link.

2019-03-01T00:21:22+00:00

The Joy Of X

Roar Rookie


@ Aligee Good story and research. Excluding Irish local/village/folk football, has "Gaelic" Football, since 1850, ever had written Rules (played between established, proper CLUBS- or between large towns) that allowed . tackling, bumping, or pushing . paying a free kick for a mark (excluding the new 2016 Rule, paying a mark) or Offside Rules What evidence is there that, prior to 1875, the Irish Archbishop, T. Croke, in NZ, was "an avid sports fan"?

AUTHOR

2019-02-28T07:09:52+00:00

Aligee

Roar Rookie


That was meant to be dumbed down not dumber, there are a number of things which changed from the 1884 gaelic rules to the 1887 - one of which was the 21 feet between posts (7 yards), the only other code in the world that has 21 feet between posts is AF, now i think it it is 6.4008 metres which BTW is still the distance between posts.

AUTHOR

2019-02-28T07:01:50+00:00

Aligee

Roar Rookie


I have dumber it down or condensed it, a good place to start is this link ....... which show the rules for Victorian Rules 1866, Victorian Rules of Football 1874 , First Rules of Victorian Football Association, 1877, South Australian Rules, 1877 , Laws of Australasian Game f Football 1883, Laws of Australian Game of Football 1895. https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/16510716.pdf These are compared against the first rules of Gaelic football and hurling ..... http://doras.dcu.ie/18960/2/J_F_Lennon_V2.pdf

2019-02-28T04:47:33+00:00

Munro Mike

Roar Rookie


So - in replying to myself.... You suggest with respect to 1866 timeframe? "Both scoring systems had goals and behinds." No - not for another 31 years in Australian Football. Although the concept of the 'behind' seems to become reported in the papers through 1879? Games were still however regarded as being won 4 goals to nil for example. And drawn matches equal on goals with no reference to behinds.

2019-02-28T02:59:18+00:00

Wise Old Elf

Guest


Melbourne Football Club was founded in 1857, the original laws were under the MCC football laws. So 1857 actually is the date we officially had our own laws.

2019-02-27T23:42:10+00:00

Munro Mike

Roar Rookie


While the notion of '4 posts' wasn't entirely common in football codes in the early days. A number of the football codes evolved with a pair of goal posts and referred to a 'kick off' after a goal and it wasn't a big stretch having another post either side of the main goals to mark the 'kick off' area. However - the 1866 Melbourne Rules still refer to the 'Kick off' posts (rule 4) - they are not yet called 'behind' posts. And no score is being drawn from this - rule 5 runs through the process of a kick 'behind goal'. #4. Two posts, to be called the "kick-off " posts, shall be erected at a distance of twenty yards on each side of the goal posts, and in a straight line with them. #5. In case the ball is kicked behind goal, anyone of the side behind whose goal it is kicked may bring it twenty yards in front of any portion of the space between the 'kick-off' posts, and shall kick it towards the opposite goal. By 1877 (the VFA rules) it was rules 4, 5 and 6. Rule 4 still defined the 'kick off posts' positioning. Rule 5 referred to the kick in if an attackers kick went behind the goal (no point award) and rule 6 if on of the defending team has a case of "the ball is kicked behind" in which case the ball was thrown in (as if out of bounds). It wasn't until 1897 with the break away VFL that the 6 and 1 scoring system was introduced. In the 20 years in between it became custom to keep a tally of the behinds that occurred however the score line was still based on goals beating goals.

2019-02-26T21:33:07+00:00

BigAl

Roar Rookie


the mighty flat white being a standout here...

2019-02-26T14:44:56+00:00

Michael scanlon

Guest


I have watched GAA football in Ireland and found it to be a great game. The players have terrific skills and have impressive speed, endurance and skill. I was impressed with the extensive goal netting that was in place just behind the goals. Apparently it was mainly for safety, but the people said that it was an excellent aid for coaches teaching kicking on goals (no lengthy fetching required). I imagined that only major grounds would be fitted with behind goal netting, but found that every GAA ground (down to small village grounds) must have the netting fitted. I believe that many regional grounds in NSW and Victoria now have behind goal netting, which has apparently proved very handy. I live in Albany, WA and we had a multi million dollar AFL complex built a couple of years ago, but there is still no goal netting. The last game I went to the contest was interrupted for almost 5 minutes on several occasions whilst someone fetched the ball after a shot on goal. Perhaps the AFL could go and check out the GAA and learn something.

AUTHOR

2019-02-25T22:41:11+00:00

Aligee

Roar Rookie


Watching a game of footy and Gaelic you can definitely see the similarities, Gaelic however seems less physical and because of the ball more open, i think we had more of a rugby influence here and a there was a bigger soccer influence in Ireland, thats shows in the shape of the ball, had we have gone down the route of continuing to use a round ball i think we would have ended up with a crossbar and net, also without the great business acumen of Tommy Sherrin in selling his ball to clubs and in particular Collingwood - but hey what would have happened to the drop punt, torpie, banana etc!!

2019-02-25T21:03:49+00:00

Mister Football

Roar Guru


The correct years are 1859 and 1863. Australian Football is also the one which remains truest to the various forms of folk football which had been around for centuries prior to 1858.

2019-02-25T18:03:15+00:00

Max power

Guest


If Gaelic football is popular in more than half of one solitary country it’s better Both get a point for missing

2019-02-25T12:12:15+00:00

Wise Old Elf

Guest


People need to try and stop reinventing history. A founder of the Australian game, Tom Wills was sent by his wealthy parents to Rugby School in England to board for his teenage years. He wanted a game to keep cricketers in Melbourne fit in the winter months and off the grog and fags so he organised some football matches but changed the laws to suit our conditions. At the time, not many played this 'rugby' lark outside of Warwickshire and soccer did not even exist until the 1860s and the 'soft Cambridge' types wanted to get all the hard parts of football removed. So we had Australian football codified in 1857. Soccer in 1865, rugby union not until the 1870s. Irish football in todays form, did not come along until after that. Really Australian rules is the only true 'football' and should have the right to call itself that first before the British Imperialism games that we are supposed to bow down to.

2019-02-25T09:54:36+00:00

Mister Football

Roar Guru


It's the epitome of classic Australian cultural cringe that something created in Australia would never be able to have any sort of influence outside of these shores. Unfortunately, in the majority of cases, the cultural cringers are correct (talking across the board, not just about sport).

AUTHOR

2019-02-25T09:07:14+00:00

Aligee

Roar Rookie


In the article is a very telling quote from Jack Worrall ..... I was speaking to the father of the game (Mr HCA Harrison) last Saturday, and the news that our code somewhat resembled the Irish one rather surprised him. So... Harrison never saw Gaelic football played to the 1884, 85, 88 and 1889 rules in 1859 or 1866 or 1872 or 1877 when he was helping write or rewrite the rules of AF. As Joe Lennon states in his thesis the Australian rules were used in quite a number of areas across a number of years, Joe Lennon is just not an average Jo Blo academic, he was one of the greatest players and coaches and tacticians in the history of Gaelic football, i would have thought it would have been hard for him to admit the rules came from another code TBH.

2019-02-25T08:58:27+00:00

IAP

Guest


There’s a clue to the long-debates question of why Aussie rules has point posts in this - originally, if teams had kicked the same number of goals the winner was the team that kicked the most behinds. Scoring now, of course is just the sum total of total points scored.

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