The All Blacks absolutely pulverised the Wallabies over the weekend, as the age-old saying of ‘don’t poke the bear’ came emphatically to fruition.
Yet somehow we wake up to news over the last day or so that Wales have displaced the All Blacks from number one spot, bringing a decade of dominance to an end.
If you’re like me you might be wondering how do you win 36-0 against one of the best rugby teams in the world and lose top spot? Or a better question is how do you lose top spot to a team that last tasted victory over you in 1953?
To put that into perspective, the retirement age is 65 and if you hit that this year you would have never witnessed a Welsh victory over the All Blacks in your lifetime.
I guess you could say “but the All Blacks only beat the Wallabies” who, disregarding their victory over the All Blacks last week where the majority of the game was played against 14 men, haven’t exactly been setting the world on fire. But looking into the history books, Wales has only beaten the Wallabies once in their last 14 attempts – a 9-6 victory in November last year.
Not to take away the achievements of this current Welsh squad, they have been brilliant, beating South Africa and the Wallabies late last year and then going through the 2019 Six Nations undefeated is quite exceptional. But don’t you have to beat the best to become the best?
I would understand if the All Blacks had lost over the weekend that there may have been arguments for the Welsh to overtake them in the rankings, given their form of late. But the All Blacks embarrassed the Wallabies, whereas Wales only barely beat England, with their only try coming with a fair bit of controversy attached, as it came when the Poms were two men down – Anthony Watson, having just been sin-binned for a deliberate knock-on and Willi Heinz heading to the sheds for an HIA assessment.
In fact, Watson was still making his way off the field when Wales took a quick penalty where they kicked the ball cross-field, over the top of Watson, to the unmarked man on the edge and seconds later a try was scored. How play was allowed to continue no-one bar the man with the whistle and a few bias Welsh supporters will ever understand.
There is no question that Wales are at the top of their game right now, but for world rugby to rank them above the All Blacks is a bit of a joke, considering the All Blacks are on a current streak against them of 30 consecutive wins.
Does this now mean Wales go into the World Cup as favourites? Making the All Blacks the underdogs? If Wales continues this form going into the World Cup and they and the All Blacks top their pools, this could mean their next meeting would be in the World Cup final.
So the number one team would be in the World Cup final and for the first time in a decade, we’re not referring to the All Blacks.
Jerry
Guest
No, the biggest issue is that the rankings system penalises dominance. If a team is at #1 with a sizeable lead over the team ranked #2, they get less reward for beating the third placed team. I get why they do it, but the net result is often similar to the old AI in games like Mario Kart and NBA Jam which artificially keeps things close. It doesn't much matter of course, there's no trophy for being ranked #1 and the sum of it's significance is a small effect on RWC pool placements.
Englishbob
Guest
It's very odd, you could make the argument (I wouldn't agree but it's plausible) that Wales are the best NH team but NZ has incredible depth, coaching excellence, nearly perfect club country relationship and let's face it sheer dominance over everyone for nearly a decade. All that has led to so little credit in the rankings that NZ can have a poor November/TRC and suddenly be usurped by Wales. Wales vaunted 14 match run, that half an England team took off them a few weeks back, did not feature wins in NZ, SA, Australia, England or Ireland, could wales beat Aus 36-0? I don't have a beef with Wales but this shows the comedy value of the rankings system, Ireland could be number one on Monday despite being hammered twice in their last games with England and Wales. NZ are still number one, but now there's 4/5 teams who could give them a game.
HR
Roar Rookie
Zero cred indeed, but the point stands that the rankings are about as meaningful in both cases. Without tournament or season play (i.e. some way of putting all of the teams into direct competition) none of these rankings really mean much.
Chucked
Guest
The Ref from the Wales Eng game should be sacked. How often do we see quick taps taken from the wrong spot and pulled back - every match. This guy had plenty chance to call play back
Lara
Guest
Something that may interest a few...since 11 March 2018, Wales has played 16 test, 10 at home and 6 away...of the 6 away games the opposition include Italy, Arg 2, Scotland and France which they won but lost to England away. Before that they lost both away games to England and Ireland. Their away game wins tend to be against lower ranked teams....interesting fact.
piru
Roar Rookie
Unlike the ABs, Wales have been consistently winning over the last 12months Well that's just silly
piru
Roar Rookie
Because as you rightly said, removing laws often has unintended consequences. I don't think the law in question was originally intended to be applied the way it is - ie in a legitimate defensive effort I didn't actually expect this to become such a debate and I know I'm a minority, I just think it's silly
ClarkeG
Roar Guru
That would not be an interpretation...that would be a directive. Quite honestly Piru, I can't see why on earth we would issue a directive to referees to interpret an action in such a way when you can simply solve the issue you have with this law by simply removing the law from the law book.
P2R2
Roar Rookie
yes and dreams are free...
piru
Roar Rookie
Literally every law is interpreted by the ref when it's applied. There is no law regarding 'the gate' for example, it's a construct referees use to help interpret the laws at the breakdown. Further, when you are penalising intent it is always going to be an interpretation. Nothing has to be removed from the laws, you simply interpret the defenders' action as an attempt to stop the ball (which it is) instead of assigning it the intent of a deliberate knock on (which is an iffy way to describe most of these incidences in the first place).
ClarkeG
Roar Guru
A forward pass is not a penalisable infringement because generally it's accidental. An intentional forward pass of course is penalisable just like the intentional knock on. Only very rarely do I see forward passes that you could classify as intentional. Mostly I would say its a case of poor execution of the pass so can't agree that it's as deliberate as an intentional knock on.
ClarkeG
Roar Guru
You either have the law or your don't. If you don't then there would need to be an adjustment. Why would you leave it to interpretation Piru. Presently we have a law that it is a penalisable offence to intentionally knock the ball forward. That has to be removed from law. The sanction then for any knock on would be a scrum.
Just Nuisance
Roar Rookie
Rugby rankings, like that of cricket ODI and T20 rankings have an inbuilt anomalies in that a team gets crowned World Champions may not necessarily be that which is ranked nr 1. Same of course in soccer. As World Champions in most sports achieve that in a knockout format tournament an argument can be made that rankings more accurate as to who the current best in the World is.
piru
Roar Rookie
That's kind of my point though, the law doesn't need amending - just the interpretation that a play to stop a pass is an attempt to deliberately infringe.
ClarkeG
Roar Guru
Well I don't see it as an odd law. I think it's a necessary law. Yes you could easily fix it by just amending the law but then there will unintended consequences in my opinion.
Ranknfan
Guest
The ranking system works and it works well. It considers current form, recent history, adds weighting for home vs away, rewards big wins over narrow wins and allows you to pile on points if you beat those above you in the rankings. It's probably the best algorithm you're ever going to get to quantify such a thing. The fact is Wales recent record against the top 5 teams in the last year is slightly better than New Zealand's. And Wale's can't help not playing NZ in that time frame. So well done Wales. I urge you to go and read the explanation on how the rankings are calculated on the World Rugby site. You can't help but be a bit impressed. When you do, you'll see what an incredible feet it was for NZ to stay at number one with such a wide points buffer for so long.
Machooka
Roar Guru
This is all the fault of my Wallaby... :crying: Well done Wales... and see ya at the RWC eh!
piru
Roar Rookie
Thinking further on that score, why is a forward pass not a penalty as well then? It's as much if not more of a deliberate action than a knockdown?
piru
Roar Rookie
Well, it is isn't it? Defending is the art of trying to stop the other bloke doing what he wants to do. Soccer, AFL, Gridiron, hockey, any other sport involving passing also has spoiling - I think our attackers are given an unfair advantage on this point. I've already answered you below re the deliberate infringing; I think this is more a loophole in the way the laws are worded and interpreted than anything.
piru
Roar Rookie
Yes, it's an odd loophole - easily fixable, take an attempted spoil as just that, the intention is never to commit a knock on - it's to stop the pass.