He doesn’t boast the flashy skills of rivals but the records show Cooper Cronk must to be added to the debate for rugby league Immortality.
Be it for sheer weight of success or for his less obvious but extraordinary ability to make his teams and teammates better, Cronk comes out on top.
Consider that a win on Sunday against Canberra will make Cronk the most successful halfback in the game’s history.
Attempting to farewell the NRL with a third straight premiership, Cronk can equal St George’s Bob Bugden from the 1950s with the most grand final wins at halfback with six.
If success is determined by wins and lifting the trophy, you can’t beat that.
And that’s even without considering his exceptional Test and Origin record.
While Cameron Smith, Johnathan Thurston and Billy Slater have dominated the debate for the best players of this era, Roosters teammates are adamant Cronk deserves a place in the Immortals debate.
“You’ve got to look at his career and what he as done. I don’t think there has been a better team player in the last 15 or 16 years,” says Brett Morris.
“Probably the first few years he was just feeling it out but since then he has been such a good team player and his record stands for itself.
“To make that many grand finals in the modern day is pretty insane. He deserves to be in the conversation.”
Cronk may not have the range of skills of Andrew Johns or set up as many tries as Thurston.
And by his own admission, he’d concede he had nowhere near the natural talent of either as a youngster.
But few halfbacks have understood and controlled the game better.
All this from a man who was unsure of his best position when came off the bench in his first two years at Melbourne in 2004 and 2005.
“I wasn’t sure what he was to be honest,” Storm coach Craig Bellamy says.
“He played a bit off the bench and at fullback.
“And he used to go on and be in the halves and he used to go and be a hooker because Cameron (Smith) wasn’t playing 80 minutes in those days.
“It was a couple of years before he was a regular first grader. So to learn to play halfback as well as he did for so long, it’s quite amazing.”
Bellamy admits that based on Cronk’s talent when he first saw him there’s no way anyone could have predicted the career ahead.
But on work ethic, few have been better.
“It just goes to show the amount of work he has put in,” Bellamy says.
“Not just physical work. While he’s done a lot of work on his passing and kicking, but also learning the game.
“I don’t think anyone has ever seen a non-halfback turn into Cooper and be as good as he has been for as long.”
Bellamy is reluctant to debate whether Cronk should join the 13 Immortals, understandable given he’s coached three players who have serious claims to the title.
But other such as Phil Gould have already pushed that case this week.
And when Cronk becomes eligible next decade, it will be hard for judges to ignore the success that every team he has guided has enjoyed.
He holds the record for the most finals wins with 26, having played in 15 finals series.
His only year out was in 2010 when Melbourne were stripped of their points for salary cap cheating – arguably the only asterisks against his record.
Sunday’s grand final will be his ninth, the most for any player since Ron Coote in the 1960s and ’70s.
His representative career is just as glittering.
Of 11 State of Origin series he played, Queensland won ten. The one loss came when he broke him arm in Game 1 in 2014 and missed Game 2.
The 35-year-old also won both World Cups he played in for Australia, undefeated in both 2013 and 2017.
Put simply, Cronk just makes teams better, with almost every Rooster attributing an improvement in their career to him.
Be it in the way he has taught them the game, guided them around the paddock or how he has helped Luke Keary cement his spot as one of the game’s the best five-eighths.
“I don’t know the selection criteria (for Immortals), but in a game where we are judged on wins and losses, he is the best,” Keary said.
“He’s been to nine (grand finals). He’s got five rings. He’s done it for 15 years at the top level.
“In my opinion he should be talked about as one of the best who has played the game.”
Chris Love
Roar Guru
I said straight after the GF last year that I would be happy with Cronk as an immortal before Smith, Slater or Meninga. He may not have transformed the game like Joey did, but as your organisational half back that steers the team around the part to perfection almost every single week. Takes the right kicking options every single week. Kicks them out of trouble. The inside ball when no ones expecting because he’s done the research on that team or player. He does all those things to perfection and for a very long time. You have to be good to make JT move to 5/8 at Origin and club level. On top of all that, you have to go back to Sterling to compare the sort of stats he’s racked up.
Chris Love
Roar Guru
If there was a vote tomorrow and the options were Cronk, Meninga, Smith, Thurston and Slater, I’d pick Cronk without hesitation.
RoryStorm
Guest
I find it amusing watching/listening to Sydneysiders falling over each other as they throw out their praise and worship for all things Cooper Cronk. In Melbourne we've known for years just how good a player Cooper is. The fact he played for all but two seasons of top grade footy for the Storm blinded the commentators opinion of him in Sydney. We knew what we were losing when he left us to come to Sydney to marry and start a family and reside where his wife works. You only have to look to see how the Storm have struggled the last two years to find a player to lock down the position that was left vacant when Cooper left Melbourne. We are still trying to find that player. Queenslanders will tell you the same thing they were saying about Cooper for years. He's a gun. In that long run of years of winning the SOO series, it was only broken the year Cooper broke his arm. It's only now that he's been playing in Sydney that you want to shower him with superlatives. Man you guys are slow on the uptake. I don't mean you in particular, I'm speaking in more of a general sense.
Tom
Guest
Johns was chosen in the appropriate time after retirement as decided by the judges. Fulton was chosen months after retirement but nobody complains about it Strange
farkurnell
Roar Rookie
Green holdens r better than blue fords
Duncan Smith
Roar Guru
Whether or not he's an 'immortal', Cronk's results speak for themselves. He has even surprised me, a long time Storm fan.
The Barry
Roar Guru
Yeah, there’s a sweet spot there for the timing that’s not quite right at the moment. I get what you mean with Johns, but I don’t have a problem with his admission to the immortals because I think he was the best and most talented player I’ve seen. But not everyone thinks that way and I can see where it’s a problem. It’s a balancing act between listing someone’s career stats like I have for Cronk versus how they pass the eye test. Cronk and JT’s CV’s will look better on paper than Johns’ but to me neither is as good as him. It wouldn’t matter if Cronk won eight premierships. One of the challenges with the immortals is that it just can’t satisfy everyone. There will always be that “if he gets in, how come he doesn’t” argument.
RM
Guest
The problem started when Johns was rushed into the Immortals not long after retirement. With 10 years there have been not one but two halfbacks in Thurstan and Cronk whose records at club, state and international levels are as good as or in some cases far better than Johns'. So of course people keep talking about their potential Immortal status. I'm not saying either is necessarily better that Johns, but 50 years from now if anyone was going back and looking at their respective careers you'd be hard pressed convincing them he was so far ahead of both that he deserved immediate rugby league Immortality and they didn't. Anyway, the important thing now is to not follow one mistake with another. Make players should have to wait at least 10-15 years after retirement before they can be considered for Immortal status.
Fraser
Roar Rookie
Are you kidding? Cronk left a very good Storm roster and joined a much better Roosters roster. Maybe you don't watch many Storm games, but on a few occasions this year in particular Smith has single handedly decided they're going to win and dragged them to victory.
RudyZarzoff
Guest
Holden’s are better than Fords !
Big Daddy
Guest
100% in agreeance. Let's blame RLW for creating this award. In over 100 years of league We have a dozen or so recipients and arguments over who should be in and who shouldn't. The hall of fame is more a level playing field. To me a guy like Ken Irvine would be a walk up start and the modern day guys have never achieved what he did. They have made a rod for their own back. Look at the league trophy with summons/provan. Should be more recognition there.
Noosa Duck
Roar Rookie
Rob, I think Cronk made Smith and he Cronk is the ultimate professional., as he has shown in his two years at the Roosters.
Noosa Duck
Roar Rookie
Rob, I prefer the Hall of fame concept where we honour our best players, officials & even referees & those behind the scenes people that should be recognised
Noosa Duck
Roar Rookie
I think Smith is a very good player and a seriously smart player but seriously overrated to be honest. Take him out of his comfort zone at the Storm and put him in, lets say the Bulldogs as an example and see how good he looks, whereas Cronk would have the team running like a well oiled machine I think Smith may struggle. You know how good a player is when you take him way out of his comfort zone & see how he performs and Cronk has shown that he can do just that.
Footy Fan
Guest
The immortals concept requires a thorough investigation of performance and influence across careers. The sort of attitude that wipes a player because of first reaction 'gut feel' is exactly what it shouldn't be about. I suggest that Thurston's NRL stats (results) aren't red-hot, whilst Cronk's are. Sure, Thurston carried a limited Cowboys roster for about 8 years. But then he had a particularly good roster for about 4 years. Point is, both should 'automatically' be in deep discussion.
mushi
Roar Guru
Yeah, if 20 years from now were still talking about them sure. But if tedesco keeps his form then slater will be "forgotten" and to an extent lockyer.
The Barry
Roar Guru
All good points To be clear I’m not suggesting four should get in...but we shouldn’t shy away from that if we have that many players in a generation Really good point about the origin / immortal fluke and protecting that.
Tom
Guest
Cronk an immortal? Nobody believes he is better then Smith, Thurston or Slater. They will be the contenders. Cronk will always be a step behind
farkurnell
Roar Rookie
I think his wife’s got to get some Bling from the NRL before he’s even considered
Rob
Guest
Don’t like the immortal conversions. He’s most certainly the best all round and consistent 7 of his generation IMO. Everyone loves to have a favourite player. Personally I think he’s the perfect player for any young half to watch. He really does his job brilliantly and those around him benefit immensely.