Rob Penney wants his side to harden up

I said Dempsey wasn't an 8 as he is too weak in contact. He is also an average 6 as he is not a punishing defender. He is really only a player to cover an injury to first choice players.

Everything is frantic behind a weak forward pack. Hooper, despite being everywhere, has been guaranteed a huge amount of money, but doesn't have much influence on the game outcomes. Need forwards interested in becoming good at what they are paid for e.g mauls, rucks, scrums and lineouts and stop looking at their individual metres gained each week.

James and W’head, It’s not as it seems in Tah land. It appears no doubt that the team from NSW are a well resourced mob of eastern Sydney based players well connected to traditional Shute clubs. But this is just a front. We are currently witnessing a clever ploy, 15 -22 years in development, to position the Tahs as ‘rabid mongrel underdogs’. When we do unearth said RMU’s, in key positions at 3, 4, 6, 8 and 14, during this year’s jaunt around the NSW regions, the cunning plan will be foisted onto an unsuspecting Super comp at the business end of the season, when show ponies like the Saders and Chiefs won’t have an answer. The ponies themselves (aka the team from ACT) will be mere roadkill on the way to the conference lead then the final victory in another country where underdogs thrive on the sound of an angry crowd. GRRRR! (Wake me up when it’s over).

FWM: It may be but history would state something different. It is in the top 2" where individual hardness lives and playing as a team with the total collective aim of beating whoever your team is up against. The coach should reward individual effort and penalise poor effort. I was worried about the words Penny used, although the subject was correct. It seemed too conciliatory and designed not to upset anyone. I have suspected for some time that the Tahs have been treated too softly for too long. Cheika's early period with them brought success as he put pressure on them individually yet spoke proudly of the team. People and particularly players, only respond to pressure and if you have no ability to rise to the challenge of pressure then you should not be a professional rugby player. The ability to win is in the ability to overcome opposition pressure and beat them. The Crusaders are master of this and I thought they were going to do it against the Chiefs last week, it was not for the lack of action that they lost. Your last sentence is correct only add in the breakdown and assuming you have backs who are likewise capable of action under pressure you should win. BTW If you want an example of 'lack of ability' just look at the Brumbies built, on players discarded due to 'lack of ability!'

Jez Doom sayer I might be about the current situation of the Tahs (and their past 15 yrs) :) But I'm actually hoping they build their way out of the current mess and return become a very strong and successful province. Aust Rugby needs them big time. But success will only come from ruthless honesty, identifying the critical issues and permanently changing their culture of mediocrity. Penney so far at least looks to be doing this :thumbup:

Another week and groundhog day. I feel for Joe Penney....one of the reasons that Kiwi coaches struggle is cause in NZ they don't have to put up with a group of reasonably talented footballers who have such a sense of entitlement, they get rid of those and get the guys who really want to be the best they can be. One thing we can expect from this group is a string of platitudes and buzz words. Remember it was only just a week ago that we listened to 'we owe Newcastle one'. That was because the last time was crap....did they play like a group who owed someone something....nope. Our biggest fear should be that the old players will convince our young bright new ones that .....hey you are a Waratah, everyone should be in awe of you, oh and btw no ones really chasing your position so just do enough, and then tell the fans that we are really trying hard, things are moving in the right direction, we need to stick to our patterns etc etc etc and they will believe you and treat us like the Gods we are.

True, but the honesty is refreshing after the spin that we have had to listen to. And honesty is the bottom line if the Waratahs are aiming at being a good side.

If Penney 'wants his side to harden up', he can take a ticket and take his place at the end of the queue. Many of us have been caring for decades not the weeks he has had in the saddle.

Who is surprised?

Why are roarers surprised about these results. Cheika may not have been that bad a coach after all . Cattle? Pathways? Domestic comps?

You can learn a lot from losing if you have the heart for it and I to back the coaches and the players, especially the younger ones.

I don't think they turned up with their heads in the right space but I do think they fought. There was loose ball on the deck and guys like Hooper were winning the race to dive on it. The squad is so far off the pace, the recruitment has been faulty for years, the development opportunities for players have been non-existent and now we are reaping that poor management by the prior CEO and Coach. It's going to take more than just this season to rebuild the squad but we do need to see them taking steps. My gut feel says that a few of the players probably walked away from the Crusaders match accepting what they saw as an honourable loss. They need to do a bit of soul searching and show a bit more next week. The deck chairs will rotate a little, I think Holloway needs to be paired with Simmons in the starting second row, Hanigan needs to come in to put pressure on Swinton and Dempsey. Guys not showing the hunger need to be shown it isn't good enough by being dropped. I really want to see more of Tafa, and I thought Harris and Champion de Crespigny showed a bit in the trials as well. Won't surprise me if Beale doesn't move to 12, although I'd really like to see him wearing 11 with Maddocks and Nawaqanitawase in 15 and 14 respectively. We've seen Moeroa off the bench and I wasn't impressed. Hopefully Lasila can come in and show us something to provide another option in midfield. I'm prepared for the team to struggle for this year and the next but I want to see them improving.

Rugby Geek - from now on you need to correctly spell Mark Nawaqanitawase correctly every time!! :laughing:

Hey Jeznez, the Tah's seemed to be largely devoid of intensity or hunger. It made for depressing view, not just because the Tahs lost, but because they seemingly didn't have the will to win....

Is it lack of commitment or something more simple....just lack of ability? Auckland was depleted thru injury and other reasons and the Tahs were pretty much full strength. When was the last time an Oz team beat a NZ team in the wet? Someone will no doubt tell me it was fairly recent but if we look at last 10 matches, I’ll bet no more than once. The point - just no rugby nous at all....rote learn from training, robotic and no natural positive instinct. And the notion still stands....gotta win your set piece and do so without creating pressure on your backs.

I love this one eye’d approach to the game. Nothing wrong with the home team, just cheating Kiwis that get away with murder and referees too scared to act. The Tahs lost because they had poor leadership in managing the game rather than the referee, they made too many stupid mistakes, missed too many tackles and lost their way in attack when they did have the ball.

APOLOGIES CINQUE, Fast typing and accuracy don't always match. But the content is always KING!

This situation requires a serious ‘rant’ from Penny (preferably confected) and bring them up sharply into the idea of his expectations of professional players. It has convinced me we should have kept the Force and dumped Melbourne and also put NSW on notice. We cannot have just 1.5 teams committed, in the Brumbies 1 and Qld 0.5. We need all teams putting in the hard stuff week after week. NOT putting in the WEAK stuff week after week. BTW Dempsey cannot play #8 he gets knocked back everytime he takes the ball up. Neither the Rebels or my Tahs are capable of playing rugby at this level – why should any of them be selected for the Wallabies? Sorry Jez, I am getting very tired of the Tahs lack of commitment.

Simmons looked bigger last year. Think he bulked up for a WC year and has backed off this season. Incomprehensible to me that the captain has looked to ease off

Obligatory name change for anyone who calls themselves a geek and refers to Richie McCall. (plus Simons and Hollaway) Gives geeks a bad name.