I’ll be honest with you, Roar readers – I’m dead tired.
It’s been an absurdly busy time at Roar Towers amd I’ve barely got the energy to put together my normal Tuesday column.
So, today, you’ll be doing the analysis.
On Saturday night, Richmond claimed their third flag in four seasons to officially (in my eyes) join the Brisbane Lions, Geelong Cats and Hawthorn sides of recent years in the exclusive dynasty club.
Brisbane Lions | ||
2001 | 2nd – 17-5, 127.6% | Won grand final |
2002 | 2nd – 17-5, 136.7% | Won grand final |
2003 | 3rd – 14-1-7, 121.9% | Won grand final |
2004 | 2nd – 16-6, 137.24% | Lost grand final |
Geelong Cats | ||
2007 | 1st – 18-4, 152.8% | Won grand final |
2008 | 1st – 21-1, 161.8% | Lost grand final |
2009 | 2nd – 18-4, 127.4% | Won grand final |
2010 | 2nd – 17-5, 147.9% | Lost preliminary final |
2011 | 2nd – 19-3, 157.4% | Won grand final |
Hawthorn Hawks | ||
2012 | 1st – 17-5, 154.6% | Lost grand final |
2013 | 1st – 19-3, 135.7% | Won grand final |
2014 | 2nd – 17-5, 140.8% | Won grand final |
2015 | 3rd – 16-6, 158.4% | Won grand final |
Richmond Tigers | ||
2017 | 3rd – 15-7, 118.3% | Won grand final |
2018 | 1st – 18-4, 136.2% | Lost preliminary final |
2019 | 3rd – 16-6, 113,7% | Won grand final |
2020 | 3rd – 12-1-4, 129.9% | Won grand final |
What jumps out immediately is how absurdly dominant Geelong were during the home-and-away seasons of their dynasty. They never finished outside the top two and lost just 17 home-and-away matches in five years, while finishing that same five-year period with a whopping percentage of 149. They could’ve not scored a single point in 2011 and they still would’ve had a positive percentage during their dynasty.
Brisbane having not won a minor premiership during their run is something of a surprise, while Richmond winning three flags from outside the top two is also pretty impressive, one of those instances comes with a bit of an asterisk.
Brisbane Lions | |
2001 | |
QF | def. Port Adelaide (3rd) by 32 at The Gabba |
PF | def. Richmond (4th) by 68 at The Gabba |
GF | def. Essendon (1st) by 26 at the MCG |
2002 | |
QF | def. Adelaide (3rd) by 71 at The Gabba |
PF | def. Port Adelaide (1st) by 56 at The Gabba |
GF | def. Collingwood (4th) by 9 at the MCG |
2003 | |
QF | def. by Collingwood (2nd) by 15 at the MCG |
SF | def. Adelaide (6th) by 42 at The Gabba |
PF | def. Sydney (4th) by 44 at Stadium Australia |
GF | def. Collingwood (2nd) by 50 at the MCG |
2004 | |
QF | def. St Kilda (3rd) by 80 at The Gabba |
PF | def. Geelong (4th) by 9 at the MCG |
GF | def. by Port Adelaide (1st) by 40 at the MCG |
Geelong Cats | |
2007 | |
QF | def. Kangaroos (4th) by 106 at the MCG |
PF | def. Collingwood (3rd) by 5 at the MCG |
GF | def. Port Adelaide (2nd) by 119 at the MCG |
2008 | |
QF | def. St Kilda (4th) by 58 at the MCG |
SF | def. Western Bulldogs (3rd) by 29 at the MCG |
GF | def. by Hawthorn (2nd) by 26 at the MCG |
2009 | |
QF | def. Western Bulldogs (3rd) by 14 at the MCG |
PF | def. Collingwood (4th) by 73 at the MCG |
GF | def. St Kilda (1st) by 12 at the MCG |
2010 | |
QF | def. by St Kilda (3rd) by 4 at the MCG |
SF | def. Fremantle (6th) by 69 at the MCG |
PF | def. by Collingwood (1st) by 41 at the MCG |
2011 | |
QF | def. Hawthorn (3rd) by 31 at the MCG |
PF | def. West Coast (4th) by 48 at the MCG |
GF> | def. Collingwood (1st) by 38 at the MCG |
Hawthorn Hawks | |
2012 | |
QF | def. Collingwood (4th) by 38 at the MCG |
PF | def. Adelaide (2nd) by 5 at the MCG |
GF | def. by Sydney (3rd) by 10 at the MCG |
2013 | |
QF | def. Sydney (4th) by 54 at the MCG |
PF | def. Geelong (2nd) by 5 at the MCG |
GF | def. Fremantle (3rd) by 15 at the MCG |
2014 | |
QF | def. Geelong (3rd) by 36 at the MCG |
PF | def. Port Adelaide (5th) by 3 at the MCG |
GF | def. Sydney (1st) by 63 at the MCG |
2015 | |
QF | def. by West Coast (2nd) by 32 at Subiaco |
SF | def. Adelaide (7th) by 74 at the MCG |
PF | def. Fremantle (1st) by 27 at Subiaco |
GF | def. West Coast (2nd) by 46 at the MCG |
Richmond Tigers | |
2017 | |
QF | def. Geelong (2nd) by 51 at the MCG |
PF | def. GWS (4th) by 36 at the MCG |
GF | def. Adelaide (1st) by 48 at the MCG |
2018 | |
QF | def. Hawthorn (4th) by 31 at the MCG |
PF | def. by Collingwood (3rd) by 39 at the MCG |
2019 | |
QF | def. Brisbane (2nd) by 47 at The Gabba |
PF | def. Geelong (1st) by 19 at the MCG |
GF | def. GWS (6th) by 89 at the MCG |
2020 | |
QF | def. by Brisbane (2nd) by 15 at The Gabba |
SF | def. St Kilda (6th) by 31 at Carrara |
PF | def. Port Adelaide (1st) by 6 at the Adelaide Oval |
GF | def. Geelong (4th) by 31 at The Gabba |
There’s a fair bit to be impressed by here for all four sides. Brisbane were just incredibly ruthless in finals and regularly put their opponents to the sword whether playing at the Gabba or interstate. The end to their 2004 campaign is particularly interesting; forced to play a ‘home’ preliminary final at the MCG due to an archaic agreement between the AFL and the ground, you have to wonder if they would’ve been more refreshed in the decider against Port if they’d been able to play in Brisbane.
Geelong regularly won ‘home’ finals at the MCG too against teams who normally play at home there, such as the 2007 and 2009 preliminary finals, as well as the 2011 qualifying finals. Hawthorn’s 2015 campaign is one of the best ever, going from Perth to Melbourne twice, knocking off the minor premiers on their home deck and then crushing a side in the decider who’d beaten them in the qualifying final and came into the match with more rest.
I don’t mind that the grand final is always played at the MCG, but the 2017 qualifying final being played there was a bit of a joke and Geelong fans have every right to be aggrieved they had to ‘host’ the Tigers there. Credit where credit is due, however; Richmond’s run to the flag this season is right up there with Hawthorn in 2015’s in terms of difficulty.
These numbers represent the number of games a team played at their home venue(s), not the games they were arbitrarily determined the home or away team. Brisbane is simple; games at the Gabba is games at home. For Geelong, their number only includes all matches at Kardinia Park, but only Docklands or MCG games against interstate opponents. Hawthorn’s number includes matches at the MCG and Launceston, as well as Docklands games against interstate opponents, while Richmond’s number includes all MCG matches, as well as Docklands matches against interstate opponents.
Before you all start jumping up and down, the reason I calculated it this is way is because I believe the true advantage of playing at home is the lack of travel, not having a higher proportion of the crowd barracking for you. While many of Hawthorn and Richmond’s home MCG games would’ve been against fellow MCG tenants, claiming that this means it wasn’t a ‘true’ home game would be akin to claiming this year’s grand final wasn’t an away game for both sides.
Besides, the real argument about the number of home games Victorian sides isn’t to do with the advantage of no travel for a particular match, but the cumulative advantage of having travelled little over the course of the year.
Anyway, here are the numbers.
Brisbane Lions | |||
Games at home | Record | Games away | Record |
49 | 44-5 | 47 | 27-19-1 |
Geelong Cats | |||
Games at home | Record | Games away | Record |
40 | 37-3 | 85 | 68-17 |
Hawthorn Hawks | |||
Games at home | Record | Games away | Record |
71 | 58-13 | 32 | 22-8 |
Richmond Tigers | |||
Games at home | Record | Games away | Record |
52 | 45-6-1 | 42 | 25-17 |
Thanks to the oddities of 2020, it actually looks like Hawthorn were the biggest home-ground beneficiaries during their time at the top – 18 ‘away’ games at the MCG in four years is nice travelling if you can get it. They lost just once in Launceston (to Sydney in 2012, incidentally) during their dynasty too.
Surprisingly, it’s the Brisbane Lions who had the toughest time of it away from home during their dynasty, but their clinical finals performances away from home should put any notion of them being home-track bullies to bed.
That’s my work done. If there are any more facts you want to bring to the table – go for it! I’m getting some sleep now.
IvoryThunder
Roar Rookie
Yeah. Good points. However, as it's already been stated; Brisbane were the beneficaries of two teams merging and salary cap allowances. Imagine, if Hawks, Cats, Tiges had the money for another A-grader or two...
Shell Peters
Guest
Definitely the Tigers - There are more teams in the competition than Brisbane and Geelong, Hawthorns 1st 2 Grand Finals were against 2 brand new teams and then their 1st & 2nd years. We have no real Home ground advantage as we share the MCG as home ground with 3 other teams. A lot of non Tiger supporters struggle to name more than 3 -5 Tiger football players yet we Tiger supporters know who is important, reliable and a real champ - we are a Champion team as opposed to other teams who were teams of champions.
Shane
Guest
It is a little hard to judge just now. 3 of the dynasties are finished and one is ongoing. It's a Formula 1 event and the 4 teams are looking for pole position, 3 of them are back in the pits with their times being checked and one is still out on the track accelerating. In my opinion, if Richmond does nothing more in 2021-2023 the achievement will rate 4th because it is only 3 Grand Finals where the others competed in more with a longer period of dominance. I hope Richmonds' race emulates the NRL St George Dragons of the late 50s to mid-60s, (premiers from 1957 - 1966) then there will be no questions ^^
sven
Roar Rookie
once again, inject some logic & fact into the argument & the sage from the west disappears
sven
Roar Rookie
u may consider it baiting don , but im asking how playing 9 games away from home in ’19 is, to use your words “every”, or even “almost every game at home” ? obviously u use a different dictionary over there. yeah we played 13 at the ‘g’, not our fault some of our opponents are based there too …… nowhere near as good a home ground advantage as optus oval anyway
sven
Roar Rookie
im not after your agreement or your permission to like dusty (thanks for clearing that up for me, was really causing me anxiety), just engaging in a bit of banter (u know, like we do here on roar at times) & pulling u up where post absolute fabrications when i can be bothered (that one gets exhausting after a while, lotta work needs doing)
Harry Selassie
Roar Rookie
What about the Hawthorn teams which made every Grand Final from 1983-89, winning 4 of them? Ok, back then there was hardly any interstate travel but any team with the Dipper and Dermott Brereton would not have been easy to defeat.
Larry1950
Guest
Hawks, Cats & Tigers (except this season) got to sleep in their own beds in GF week. Lions never did. Advantage Brisbane.
Don Freo
Roar Rookie
We're not talking about this year.
Don Freo
Roar Rookie
I did respond to this with a very clear...and simple...explanation. The moderators, unfortunately, only allow you to bait me but don't allow the reply. It's an Eastern States thing at The Roar.
Dave
Roar Rookie
Fair to say Richmond’s run should still have an asterisk next to it, as it’s potentially still in a progress phase! Hopefully this is the case where they should be contending for the next few years!
Dave
Roar Rookie
What a ridiculous statement! On what logic do you base such a statement on??
Dave
Roar Rookie
Harsh as always on Richmond there Don! Richmond played the majority of the season away from the MCG, played perhaps their best win of the season against Minor Premiers Port Adelaide over in SA and still managed to win the 2020 flag yet you still claim their not in this discussion! Clearly regardless of what the tigers achieve going forward, your negative and biased opinion of Richmond will remain, pretty sad dude!
Don Freo
Roar Rookie
No accusations, sven. Just decide that you don't need my agreement to think what you think. You can do that...just leave me out of your thinking and you'll be free.
The Brazilian
Roar Rookie
You may scoff. Fact is Geelong get to train on their quirky, cra##y ground several times a week. What a leg up. No-one else ever sees a ground that shape . . . until they venture down to Geelong. Over a season they probably have 100 or more, likely, sessions there. MCG tenants, and Docklands tenants only see their 'home' grounds on game days. Cats were lucky KP didn't get axed during the rationalisation period, Should have been.
Birdman
Roar Rookie
Yep but Burton is injury-prone which I think the Hawks knew.
Mark.
Roar Rookie
Agreed. And you got rid of your other good pick in Burton for Magic Beans Chad.
Mark.
Roar Rookie
Nailed it.
Mr Right
Roar Rookie
I know we aren't allow to say it these days but that is a female logic. An 18-4 season @ 144% in a run of success can not not be excluded.
Mark.
Roar Rookie
Lol