Pattinson and Head in Australia's best XI for South Africa Tests

And like I said above, Pattinson's test average at the MCG is only based on a small, sporadic sample of games - vs India in 2011, vs West Indies in 2015 (who were a train wreck) and vs NZ last summer. One test in five years is simply not enough data to support your statement that "you have to find a place for Patto", particularly when it would require removing an experienced, in-form incumbent. Your SCG comment is probably fair enough, as our bowling group was likely to need freshening up due to hub life and not having played much red ball cricket in 2020. Of course, Pattinson was unavailable by then due to injury. It would have been Neser coming in.

Not really pattinson has average of 16 at mcg . Pattinson economy lower in his outings at mcg . There's more debate over mcg but little debate over scg . Fact is you have to find a place for Patto at mcg he's a weapon and we did let them get away from us In Middle order batting and that's where they won the match with pant and jedeja , I was there watching . Ok our batting wasnt so great but Patto may have decimated them . His average is better than all other bowlers at mcg . Scg was a no brainer on starcs poor average sometimes you have to rotate them out knowing they don't bowl as well at s ground and certain conditions . After all same four bowlers against india twice at mcg and twice at scg were well beaten by india . I kept saying prior we have problems with starc and lyon at these two grounds . Results were losses without rotating yet sgain

Lol Starc leaked runs at the MCG? He took 4 wickets at 24.5, with an economy of exactly 3rpo in the first innings (with the second innings being a non-event). He completely justified his selection in that game. The fact remains that Starc bowled well in Adelaide and Melbourne. It wasn't until Sydney that he was below par. Suggeting that we would have performed significantly better in Melbourne with Pattinson is pure speculation. And as for Pattinson's test record at the MCG, he's played 3 tests there in a decade, with one of those against the West Indies. It's not much of a sample size.

Not so sure your right some people agreed Patto had a great record , jeff included on here , the averages speak for themselves. I certainly did on comments on here and nearly wrote an article but actually thought people would have an attitude like non change like you. Fact is two losses against india same four bowlers within two years . Patto played last year and bagged alot of wickets he loved it there . The results don’t lie and for me it got predictable m we got flogged first innings in Adelaide and only two bowlers made the difference cummins hazel second innings getting 9 wickets I think between them . Lyon and starc have leaked runs in four tests at mcg and scg against india in two years . Do you need a third time to let it sink in ? I’ve been on to lyon and starc at mcg and scg for some time , against weak opp ok but england and india have caught then out as big totals have accrued even when they get a few wickets . england got on top of us the year before india at mcg too . We have problems there 3 times in four years and scg is an issue for starc and lyon on averages. If we want to keep losing there then stick to the same formula , fact is it’s pattos pitch and 3 tests played for 3 wins . Can’t argue with that and his average of 16 . Lunacy not to pick him and the results show it too

That same attack had just dismissed India for 36. Literally no one was calling for a change to the attack after Adelaide, and to now suggest it should have happened is 100% hindsight. No selection panel in the world was going to drop Starc to bring in a guy who hadn't played a first class match in almost a year, no matter how good his average at the MCG is.

James if anything on starcs average selector need the forsight to not play him at scg on a flatter pitch m the data and average suggest it is true ore series and last series against india same ground . I think mcg was trickier but Patto has the best average of all bowlers we have there so you have to make a call. Maybe it was lyon out , maybe rotate hazelwood but more likely you rotate starc out . The result was 326 runs may have been 225 runs with pattos average of 16 . It worked last year but was due to Hazel’s injury but Patto has never lost at test at mcg on three tedt matches there . sure the bats didn’t perform but picking burns was another gross mistake from the start of the series with a small second innings chase with less pressure . He wasn’t inform at all . Elevating labs and sliding in marsh or carey to middle order was the go there . We got outbatted first innings at adelaide . I think the combo was Patto hazelwood and cummins and then select one of lyon or starc at mcg . Two tests losses in a row to india there same four bowlers. Writing was on the wall and I suggested it before the match several times . Thing is pant , jadeja got away with the runs at mcg In middle order quickly from starc and lyon and a greener green (who I do like ) but pattos omission seemed very costly with the best average there in the Australian squad by some distance

At whose expense though? Starc was in good form in Adelaide (and was our most productive quick at the MCG) while Cummins, Lyon and Hazlewood weren't going to be rotated out. Our problem at the MCG was the batting, not the bowling. India only got 326, and that was on the back of one good partnership between Rahane and Jadeja. The rotation should have happened at the Gabba after we couldn't bowl India out in the final innings at the SCG, with Starc really labouring. The alarm bells were going off then and they were ignored.

Pattinson is the most over rated bowler ever for Australia. He does lots of huff n puff and pretence but the game is about taking wickets. Starc is a way better wicket taking bowler. Pattinson has never and never will win a test for Australia. He is not up to it and was only briefly any good at all, which so many think is his norm. He came good for 5 mins. Now just a stock bowler at test level. Every batter wants to face him because he serves up the hittable balls. Granted Starc does as well but he also has many more jaffa balls as his figures indicate.

McDermott is in the T20 squad

What we have seen is paine have a poor series with bat against England , last summer was a batting paradise and now he's had another home deck. He made some runs which were valuable but sadly his keeping has slipped the drop of pant was critical and easy to take and pant survived for hours after it on day 5 of scg . He dropped several other catches but still it's the Captaincy that let aus down the most general his fields as Geoff lawson and others point out were terrible as was his captaining decisions under pressure at scg and gabba on top of headingly . I think carey is no worse with gloves now and the future whilst paines captaining has cost us matches . Let's hope cummins and co can do some vital damage in sa but I don't think we need timmy in sa either way . As he's gone I think all know it's pretty much a done deal he'll go after ashes so we may be delaying the inevitable and wasting valuable opp to future players like carey

He was the best keeper-batsman of the tournament. However his actual keeping was so-so. Whilst he led the number of dismissals, a keeper takes the edges presented from the bowlers, so that is an irrelevant stat in isolation, perhaps with the exception of stumpings, though missed stumpings are rarely tallied across a tournament; Carey had two stumpings. Carey dropped a couple of regulation chances which is poor - one of them very costly - and he conceded the second most number of byes. So on that basis his keeping was indeed average. His batting performance was irrelevant in the context of my comment and the discussion in the thread, which is about keeping.

30 as an opener in odi’s is not good enough general, he averages under 30 in first class cricket which is an indicator of his ability. Had a good series against the India b team

Dropped one in each of the first 2, 3 in the 3rd, easy catch in 1st innings of the 4th and the stumping in the second innings.

Paine averages under 30 in first class cricket

Paine was dropped once from memory against India. Labs was dropped three times in one innings, and Green twice in one innings. Don't be picky. The facts are Paine OPENED in 24 of his first 26 ODI's before his injuries that kept him out of the game for seven years. Good enough to do so with Hayden, Ponting, Hussey, Clarke etc in the side. Still comes down to the fact that Paine has more ODI scores over 50 than Carey.

It's true he wasn't bad at mcg james , but the point is they had to find a place for Patto at mcg as that av if 16 is phenomenal and is better than cummins and any other bowler in the team . He's never lost a test there . It was a prime time to rotate him in . I had a feeling we would struggle at mcg without patto

Generally I agree micko , starc is an asset at certain grounds where he can get the yorker and reverse swing going . Neser and Patto deserved chances against india and I'm pretty amazed the selectors couldn't work this out pre series .

Think your living in the past with paine he’s had a couple of home summers on Flatter decks and chanced a few lucky innings against india where he could have been out early numerous times . He went missing with bat in England by and large , carey was smashing runs in uk with second best aus average in side 60 plus from memory and at many stages held the batting together for aus . That was against the worlds best . He’s going to be the better player to tour with . That said one feels like paine is being afforded the luxury of an ashes sign off on home soil and that will be it at his age of 36 going on 37. England supporters are pleading with us to keep paine as captain due to his tactical errors under pressure

Dude he was the keeper of the tournament.

Many people are all for Pattinson to replace Starc, unfortunately this means 3 right handers and while I'm a fan of Patto, it reduces the variety. Smarter for someone to work with Starc and help him sort it out and then get his captain to utilise him better. Replacing Starc with Patto isn't the answer.