The provincial poach: How Australia could start filling their Super Rugby sides today

Yes, in short term, this would benefit NZ, but by raising the profile of the teams, (winning more), will encourage more Aus to play and also raise the standards of play. Everyone looks at short term rather than longer term.

To rival the NRL & AFL you need a fully open comp with the ability of all teams to recruit all players.

I would urge you to watch NPC games from NZ. The standard of rugby is only marginally inferior to the NZSR teams and is why NZ Super teams are consistently strong. Oz SR teams wouldn't have to choose a marquee player but would benefit by approaching players that were unlucky not to get NZSR contracts for example, or emerging talents or older fringe Super players. This would mitigate the necessity to spend any extra, strengthen Oz teams and hopefully retain them. Another idea would be to have a Trans Tasman Provincial competition where say eight Australian teams join the 14 current top NPC teams and say the top four Oz teams play with the top seven NZ teams, and vice versa with the rest meaning two divisions with relegation/promotion between them. This should strengthen both countries and increase viewer interest on both sides of the Tasman. Oops add two Pacifica teams too. Hey if it improves and proves successful it could rival the European comps, NRL and AFL in future.

The biggest hurdle here is that the best grass roots players are more often than not poached by other codes before the SR franchises get a look in, something needs to change and a sprinkling of kiwi players wouldn't hurt the Australian game as long as there wasn't too many as to hinder pathways for the select few that actually want to stay the rugby union course. Also, who in all honesty remembers world cup runners up? Coming close is good and all, but is that really what we want to see going forward?

I don’t see how the Aus SR coaching system compared to NZ would elevate a fringe NZ SR player to justify an AB selection It's not only about coaching, it's about getting game time and showing what you can do against the top level. It might be different now, but when I was a kid, if you didn't make the rep team early or had a bad game at a young age, you'd struggle to ever get another shot

Further compounds the fact that Rugby in this nation has long had zilch grass roots. It's a code waiting for the last rites basically.

No, Andy. Super Rugby is meant to be an elite competition. Nothing developmental about it but Aust used it as such in the absence of their own third-tier competition.

Nice article PP and you are 100% correct there's not a lot to stop players coming over here right now. I think there's a couple of issues in this though. Firstly, there needs to be better targeting of the player to ensure they get players who can improve the sides and make a difference. Thrush and Kahui were awesome for the Force but I'm not sure bringing in players like Garden-Bachop and Hawera who couldn't get into a NZ Super team for good reasons were the right choices. Secondly, the targeting needs to include the development of the Australian players. If Australia gets 5 10's from NZ it won't help the Wallabies much, not matter who wins the Super rugby. While it does offer up some ways for a young Kiwi to get game time they might not get in NZ I think there will always be that question around "why weren't they getting it in NZ?" probably not because they were better players than the other ones who were getting game time.

Australian Super Rugby is a feeder comp subsidised by RA and the Wallabies. NZ players were contracted for Aus teams and funded by RA for one of two reasons: * They were marquee players who would fill a critical gap in the team, provide a point of difference player to improve results, or grow the team's public profile. * They could eventually become eligible to play for the Wallabies based on residency. Allowing players to return to the NPC each season would remove any chance of eligibility, and the major incentive for signing these players in the first place.

I would have thought the Argentinians are owed a few contracts across SRP. As a nation they have gone above and beyond again and again and really we sold them down the river – invited them in then chucked them out. Plus some serious talent there – don’t forget the Jags in the last season super rugby made the final and from memory won 2/3 threes in NZ against NZ sides…

Super Rugby is and always has been a development competition. However, the fundamental problem is that for New Zealand it is for developing SR players into Test players, whereas for Australia it is for developing amateurs into SR players. It is the essential difference between the two systems, and why the results run the way they do.

You answered the question when you named the first two players who played fly half !! They stopped any development of Aus fly half’s at those clubs !! That would be good enough reason not to import players from NZ!

There seems to be a view in the comments that only considers NZ players. Logic would say that the best NZ players have already been chosen for their Super teams - leaving older, younger and probably not as good players available. If this is accepted then the Australian Super teams will struggle if that's who they take onboard. However why are eyes not being cast further afield as the Crusaders have done signing Pablo Matera - nobody can say he is too old, too young or not good enough. The Force started to do this with their Argentina players and even more interesting with Olowofela from England. Young and full of talent. Europe is full of this type of player who could be attracted to playing in Australia. Again the Crusaders took Oli Jager as a young talented player, this time from Ireland. And if the Aus Super teams really push the boat out what about players from the US and Canada. Many in the US team especially are considered good enough to be professionals in Europe already. The only caution for RA if the Super teams went down this path is to ensure that the teams didn't all fill one position ie No 12 leaving no Australian in that position. Not only will this help our teams improve but it will also add some additional excitement for the supporters.

What a load of rubbish. By allowing kiwis to come over here and take the place of young guys who have come up through the grassroots system with a dream to make a living out of Rugby, it will just drive people away from the sport. Stuff the kiwis. How about the kiwis allow young Aussies into their super rugby teams. We’ve won world cups runners up a few time and super rugby titles without them.

Wallabies selectors pick players that don't benefit the team?!

This is my count of provincial players new to Super rugby. 37 in total. It doesn't include players who have returned from overseas and been selected from NPC. Significantly more than 20. To a certain extent we're arguing different points. You're saying players capable of being playing week in, week out for NZ SR teams, and I'm assuming for a number of years. That's an extremely high standard. I'm arguing for players who are being selected despite there being a lot of other more experienced choices teams could make. Blues James Lay Soane Vikena Sam Darry Adrian Choat Taine Plumtree AJ Lam Jacob Ratumaitavuki-Kneepkens Zarn Sullivan Chiefs Joe Apikotoa Josh Lord Kaylum Boshier Samipeni Finau Tom Florence Simon Parker Viliami Taulani Xavier Roe Rivez Reihana Rameka Poihipi Gideon Wrampling Crusaders Fletcher Newell Tamaiti Williams Liam Allen Isaiah Punivai Chay Fihaki Highlanders Josh Hohneck Jack Regan James Arscott Caleb Makene Tim O'Malley Josh Timu Sam Gilbert Vilimoni Koroi Hurricanes James O'Reilly Luke Campbell Brayden Iose Cameron Roigard Pepesana Patafilo Ruben Love From I've seen of these players at least half of them are capable of being long term, five year plus, players for NZ Super Rugby teams. That means every year NZ is producing 20 players capable of having long careers with the best club teams in the world. How many of the others are slipping out because they are just not getting the opportunity to play because there is so much experienced talent stacked ahead of them? Australian rugby woudl kill to have that much talent coming through every year. Ultimately the real point is that NZ is capable of producing far, far more talent at the standard the Australian super rugby clubs are recruiting at, and above it. Most of it wil get soaked up by NZ SR teams, but for a lot of players teh appeal of getting a starting place for say the Waratahs and living in Sydney will be much greater than riding the pine maybe two or three times a year for their SR team and spending the rest of the time training and playing local club rugby. And that's if they get a contract at all. There is a very long list of players who have not got contracts in NZ SR, been picked up as injury cover and who have then gone on to star. More competition for NZ SR players will find more of these players.

The Wallabies won't be treating it as a dead rubber, I hope the ABs aren't coming in half heartedly.

Only if wee say it :stoked: Mate its a big game, many here are calling it a dead rubber. Bugger that, it's New Zealand V Australia, it's for Championship points. Just between you and me. I wish there was more Kiwi's in the Wallabies so I have each way. :silly: :silly: :silly:

or even Adam Thomson :silly:

Yeah, I liked Thomson - The guy he invites comparison to is fellow AB Dan Braid that you had up there. I always thought Thomson seemed a better fit for the Reds. Almost filled a Higginbotham shaped hole in the squad.