Citizen Quade: 'To not know if I could come home was a daunting feeling,' says 'grateful' star

You can assume I don't all you like - you're reaching for a false equivalence because it's not me calling him lazy. That's you. Without the knowledge to be making that claim Nice try mate

Worse, I think we have a very poor outcome, more Ministerial discretion as to who gets in.

Cricket Australia is one exception. Typical of RA, either not paying attention or, more likely, have not thought about it or do not care. Extraordinary given the number of players who are in a similar boat. How many are Pacific Islanders schooled in NZ? Potential Olympians have very broad requirements.

I think it means it has been a great benefit not supporting the Wallabies, so you lose any other benefits. Seems reasonable ....

2015

Right again, it is easy. First application in 2015, probably due to the need for citizenship to represent Australia at the Olympics. I am not sure if the adverse decision was affected by the fact he was in France 2015-2016, or subsequent ones by being in Japan from 2019. It really does close down those windows. Probably does not help applying while you are a non-resident for tax purposes. I would not be too sure about Quade spending two years of his life on this. Luckily, unlike the humble everyday person, he can probably afford someone to do it for him, just as he can afford to actually get back into Australia.

Quade Cooper snd Will Genia are public figures. It is pretty easy to work out with a reasonable degree of accuracy as to whether they had any windows of opportunity to qualify for citizenship. As to your ‘practical note’? You have shown with every post that you zero knowledge or experience of the immigration system, so anything you suggest is of no value - particularly to someone like Cooper who has made 4 applications for citizenship (which would have likely taken up 2 years of his life altogether).

Sure that is fine. But you did not confirm that you know anything about his personal case history. You should know that is a very important disclaimer to any opinion you render. I can only speak from the experience of dealing with the problems of people who should have sorted their status and did not. The consequences, especially in the current environment, can be dire. Given your expert opinion, and the fact that Quade has applied four times in the last 20 years, perhaps he just might not be eligible. Representing a country in rugby only requires a grandparent being a citizen or three years residence. As some smart alec commented elsewhere, perhaps the rugby rules are the ones requiring amendment. On a practical note, as previously noted, I would suggest that Quade's case would have been better served by quiet diplomacy. Some reports have indicated that the loophole opened for Quade will shut down Will for years to come. The system might be a shambles but Twitter is not necessarily the best medium to fix it.

I’ve practiced as an immigration lawyer. Everything I’ve written in this thread is basic entry level knowledge of anyone who has dealt with the immigration system. The only people who would take issue with it are people who have zero experience in the area.

You are worth three points

Maybe, maybe not. I don't know and I assume you don't either. My original point, somehow lost in translation into a foreign language, was that anyone who is resident in Australia and qualified for citizenship or permanent residency or whatever, should attend to it as soon as practicable. Otherwise you can end up in the same unfortunate predicament as Quade. You should note that he is not as unfortunate as some, he is back in the country.

Maybe, maybe not. I don't know and I assume you don't either. My original point, somehow lost in translation into a foreign language, was that anyone who is resident in Australia and qualified for citizenship or permanent residency or whatever, should attend to it as soon as practicable. Otherwise you can end up in the same unfortunate predicament as Quade. You should note that he is not as unfortunate as some, he is back in the country.

Thanks for the lesson on corporate theory Gray-Hand. You probably need to read your first sentence again. If you still don't get it I suggest you read the NRL news for a week or two.

I lived through the frigate debate in the late 80s, the way some people went on you would think they were buying the Death Star, instead of four entry level warships. My grandfather was an old school NZ Labour man, a veteran and branch president who always talked of the need for New Zealand to back up Australia, he and Nan knew the then NZ defence minister Bob Tizard well. Mr Tizzard was also my Mum’s French teacher and an aviator from WW2. The Navy was supposed to get four frigates which the left wingers made a huge fuss about, I remember the entire side of an overpass in Auckland being scrawled with “No Frigates!” in graffiti. I was told that it wasn’t for Mr Tizzard digging his toes in, they wouldn’t have gotten the two frigates that they did. Bob Hawke refers to his first discussion with David Lange, the first NZ PM at the time, in his memoirs. He said he suggested to Lange that his anti nuclear stance was only to pacify the Labour Left, so that Lange could undertake economic reform. Lange agreed, Hawker said he thought Lange was a complete hypocrit for strutting around with a peace award a few years later. The same sort of political opportinism over frigates and fighters over the next decade and a half turned took NZ defence force from being a small but valuable contributor to our alliance, to being a glorified coast guard and peace keeping force. Sadly I think NZ has made itself vulnerable at the time it can least afford to, when we have a major threat growing to the north and still face the prospect of terrorism. It once would have been able to rely on its allies all of the time, but now I think that will only be the case most of the time. It only takes one instance where NZs interests don’t align with its allies to be a major problem, if those allies say “not our problem”. The immigration and welfare fuss is only a small taste of that, if it comes to things like maritime trade protection or protecting New Zealand’s Antarctic claim, the Kiwis might find themselves regretting their neglect of themselves and their mates.

The place is small enough to be a bit of a populist echo chamber and now they have a PM who actively panders to the negative, entitled sentiment towards Australia. More people need to call out how bad mannered it is, several Kiwis I have spoken to about their attitude, were mortified when they were forced to look in the mirror. They are good people who have collectively gone down a bit of an unfortunate path, I hope it changes.

Interesting stuff Rhys. It could be a combination of these things. I know they were also really annoyed when NZ cancelled one (or two?) of the Anzac frigates they had agreed to purchase as well around a decade (or more?) ago. They have been pretty lazy with their defence spending for decades, and seemingly over-reliant on Australia.

Here is the relevant reference. https://www.wgtn.ac.nz/strategic-studies/documents/strategic-briefing-papers/f-16-II.pdf You can decide for yourself whether you think the timing of the immigration decision, just under a year after New Zealand canned it's air combat capability, was a coincidence. I don't.

Yes - but that means that he isn’t automatically entitled to re-enter Australia during a global pandemic. It also meant that he couldn’t represent Australia at the olympics and continues the absurd scenario of the most recognisable wallaby player not actually being an Australian citizen.

No Scrum I wasn't saying it was tough to live here, what I was trying to highlight was treating migrants with respect. If you really feel that strongly about letting migrants into the country then fair enough lobby the government to stop migrants coming in. I agree that migrants have an obligation to uphold the values of the country the move to and contribute to countries well being of that country. I arrived here 25 years ago, never been on the dole, paid 25 years of taxes, raised three beautiful young Aussies and I've given back to my community by volunteering as a firefighter and surf lifesaver over 15 years. And yet I still get asked by some Aussies "when the hell are you going home?"