Time for rugby diplomacy and new stadiums in the Pacific

All this is quite laughable , the reality is the economic barriers that the wealthy nations put in place cost countries more than the aid they get. NZ get the advantage of direct entry to Australia, if this appplied to any other PAcific country their GDP would double to quadruple as a result. No one comes to Australia because you get entry to NZ. China have been foolish to lend this amount of money to poor countries . What are their options they have to keep feeding them money or they switch to Taiwan. China cant send in the repo man and even if they had the option their is nothing much to grab and sell in most the Pacific The US being concerned they are being influenced is what this is all about..

I love the general concept. Let's suppose the NZ and Aus government and perhaps some other international donors paid for a more modest 15,000 seat multi use stadium in Nadi. Ideally employing as many locals in the construction as practical. Perhaps make the donation conditional on certain democratic freedoms and anti-corruption checks and balances. Nadi being the tourist 'capital' of the largest of these nations, close to an airport, a lot of accommodation and tourist facilities. This would have to be conditional on World Rugby guaranteeing a world 7s annual fixture for at least 12 years. Plus also certain Super Rugby fixtures guaranteed by SAANZAR. Perhaps think outside the box to make it easy and fee free for international remittances to buy tickets for local relatives. It would probably still need some international donations to keep it operating, including from World Rugby. The objective would be to have it as close to self sustaining as possible and a boost to tourism and remittances from the diaspora so that the overall payback is a sustainable net economic benefit for Fiji. Aus and NZ could at least pay for an independent feasibility study of this idea.

I'm not sure it is still true but last I checked there are more Pacific Islanders in just Auckland than there are in all those Island nations put together. So yes when they play in NZ in some respects it is like a home game. Of course, nothing compares to what it would be like in a true home game in Apaia or Suva.

There are the debts that the CPP leaves with these Pacific Islands. Like they have with many developing countries. Which very definitely leave the poor country in a debt trap. However it is worse than this, in that there is also all the ‘hidden’ debts that the CCP create which are not on official books because the debt is to a consortium which is underwritten by the poor country. Which still have the exact same effect of leaving the poor country in a debt trap to the CCP. Which means the poor country has to make other concessions to the CCP to compensate. AidData, an international development research lab based at Virginia’s College of William & Mary, analyzed 13,427 Chinese development projects worth a combined $843 billion across 165 countries, over an 18-year period to the end of 2017. Researchers found that these nations’ debt obligations to China are larger than international research institutions, credit ratings agencies or intergovernmental organizations estimate. The governments of Australia and NZ and other donors provide aid money and sponsorship to these Pacific countries but they do their best to do this ethically with an intention that it will lift poverty in a sustainable way. I know this because my own father was an advisor to ADB, the World Bank and AUS and NZ in many of these countries for this express objective. CCP China has no such objective. Look at how the CCP treat their own people, never mind some far off little country of “foreign devils”. Let’s not pretend there is any doubt CCP China would plunder even more in the Pacific if/when it does not get attention and international back lash.

If they had come for the same fee as Fiji got for travelling a longer distance to London then Samoa rugby would have made money. You keep mentioning this myth about visiting teams getting a percentage of the takings. look at this article. https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/108407819/all-blacks-v-england NZ complaining that they dont get a share of the gate takings. So NZ is not near England on the rugby wealth scale and want a share of their money. They did play one extra match for 4 million though compare that to the Fiji fee. Their pay back is when England plays in NZ they get the gate and tv rights. What is the pay back for the Pacific islands when no one plays return test matches and the one time it did happen they somehow included a fee that was much higher than the revenue. Your 25 dollar figure , the tickets for the Apia match went over the 100 dollar mark actually.

Firstly that mainly refers to PNG nothing to do with Samoa. Half the total tonnes, refers to weight of the timber, so China is the main importer of Pacific timber and they would take ore for processing which is also heavy. In terms of mining Australia has been in the region longer doing more damage over that term, Nauru was completely mined out by Australia, you can blame Australia for Boganville and other PNG mines. Now the Chinese have come in as well . French have New Caledonia and the nickel mine. The demand is there for the minerals if Australia and China dont do it someone else will. Its mainly tuna thats fished in these waters and that goes most to Thailand for processing into cans to be sold in the Europe and the US, a lot of that for pet food. China doesn;t eat a lot of tuna. China would be plundering more from South East Asia not the Pacific as defined here including PNG as part of the Pacific. If you include PNG as part of south east asia instead of the Pacific then CHina is not that big a factor in the Pacific with this so called plundering. When Australia does the plundering we are portrayed as bringing money to the region and helping them out. There is a huge focus on China recently, its a convenient target, attracts a lot of readers, fits in all sides of politics as a target, ignoring that a lot of other countries are also in this game.

Propaganda you say?? Extract below from the Guardian, which is hardly a bastion of misinformation: A global audit of Pacific resource extraction undertaken by the Guardian’s Pacific Project has revealed that China dominates resource extraction in the region, taking just over half the total tonnes of the minerals, timber and fish exported. Don’t be naive and if you want a reference for Chinese investment in the Xi era have a look at their plundering of Ecuador’s oceans or even Pakistani waters

ummm ... because the ABs allowed Samoa to keep their share of the gate takings? For the record: visiting teams get a share of gate takings no matter the host nation; the exact split is what I'm not aware of. In this case, the ABs waived that requirement. Did everything right and still the Samoan RFU lost money. You can't even charge $25 a ticket for these games in the Islands (too expensive!)

Your post is absurd propaganda. Firstly stadiums are not priorities that these countries will indebt themselves usually its stuff like port facilities, dams and hydroelectric power in the case Fiji, and other stuff. Stadiums usually Chinese give away as sweeteners to make sure they dont recognise Taiwan. A lot of other foreign aid is also worked to involve the donor countries businesses. Fishing rights in the Pacific as well you might not know this but US fishes in many of these Pacific islands and reneged on the payments to them. The problem in fishing rights is that they are sold cheaper than people think in the Pacific. The idea that you dont pay the Chinese and they send in the fishing boats seems to be some made up story. Can you list what other resources Samoa has they come and take like the repo man. In reality Samoa have very small exports and big imports. Their major source of money is from expat Samoans overseas. China likes lending money to get people in debt for influence certainly but actually has difficulty getting them to pay them back. I think the Pacific islands are very well advised to play off China and the USA against each other and get whatever they can. The one thing there is no doubt that is dont expect from NZ rugby.

Geopolitical reasons. To keep the South Pacific in the western sphere. Rather than let it become forward bases for China. Governments give money away to others countries all the time. It’s called foreign aid. Nothing to do with rugby really.

Why would the New Zealand government put money in? They don't do it for within the country, neither the government nor NZ rugby unions own any stadiums/sports grounds, they are owned by local district councils and paid for and subsidised by local ratepayers.

Australia is the most expensive place to build in the world there is no need for anything to cost 250 million and labor costs here are extremely high. This practice of designer grounds isn't needed as well. There was actually a proposal to build such a new stadium and marina at Nadi on Deanaru island as Nadi has more tourist accomodation and is closer to the airport. Price tag of 150 million to attract a round of the HSBC world 7's. That would attract thousands of tourists more certainly than a round of super rugby. They could also go for a cutprice option of upgrading the local Nadi stadium which is also rectangular, they need the one in Suva for the athletics track. They could put one modern grandstand for the tourists and corporates one side and leave the old grandstand on the other side for the cheap tickets. I dont have a clue what the old grandstand is like but lets face it most of Australia were going to grounds over 20 years ago with second rate grandstands and standing on hills , and people even like them now. The stuff your talking about is relevant to Australia , Fiji has cheaper labour costs, they are not as spoiled as Australian, you would be lucky to get 10k tourists to need the good facilities. More chance of getting money from a homeless person than SANZAAR. World rugby on the other hand would put in some money for this project. The big contributor would be China they have a real thing about stadiums, even the Carribean world cup do you think a single cent came from the now incredibly rich and spoiled Cricket Australia no most of the stadiums were built with Chinese money.

Indeed, and its magnificent because that feature. Will be interesting to see what happens in 20 years time if there is an appetite for capacity increase. The 2 tenant AFL clubs will have a massive say in this if their membership numbers continually exceed 53,500. So to if the oval can attract more major events like the State of Origin and touring concerts acts. The decision may be to increase the size of the current stands over a number of years, similar to what they do with major redevelopments at the MCG. Will be interesting to see.

Not to mention a high proportion of their players are born in NZ, & are “nursed/grown” in New Zealand school & provincial comps, before they then go off to “greener” pastures.

Well said fiwiboy, it makes you wonder when some people just make things up. I have plenty of Fijian mates, and they will laugh tomorrow when I show them his post. Also bulla mate

Provide the facts! NZ have been providing support to the Pacific Island teams. They have play in Samoa and host Internationals with Samoa, Tonga and Fiji as more live in NZ. New Zealanders love how the Island supporters turn out in force. In fact it is a home game for them all, and they get the share of the gate takings and more.

The main problem is that Fiji is run by a regime, so they will want maximum profit before building a stadium.

Suva's population as of four years ago was about 95,000. They can develop that stadium further but they would need a good reason to. And to get value for money spent, they would want a multipurpose facility.

AB waived their fees? They are supposed to be paid by NZ rugby, how does that save Samoa rugby any money. The home team should be taking the gate takings . To take a full squad coaching staff and put them up in 5 star accomodation would not cost 1 million even with flights for one match. We know that Fiji got only 70k pounds to go all the way to England and play a match and that was called a courtesy payment. I also know that Pacific island members of the English squad asked that England players give 2000 of their match fee to Pacific players. the quote that I have about the gate takings is the following. Things would have to change because for the upcoming Super rugby season and maybe for the recent test matches but this share of gate taking did not exist when this quote came out. JW: You mentioned before that the host unions take 100 per cent of the gate takings. What NZ Rugby, at least, has said is that they have to in order to make home tests profitable? Do you buy that? DL: No, I don’t buy that at all. The issue I see is that those top, tier one nations are so protective of keeping their share of the pie. Our argument is that if you make that pie bigger then collectively the same piece will be worth more. We need to invest in the growth of the game, but that investment has to come from somewhere. It’ll take short term sacrifice for long term gain, but at the moment no one wants to be the ones to dip their hand into their pockets – so we’re stagnating as a sport. so direct quote NZ take 100% of the gate takings The Western Samoa team that was based in NZ and playing other countries did generate revenue by playing other visiting teams in NZ.

Unfortunately I already knew that. Evergrande going under might slow that down or change the policy if they feel the need to bail them out. The road to Nadi airport is the same idea. I believe South Korea is also investing heavily into the pacific, building power plants, but that could also be China.