Could the Panthers be key in rugby union's future in Penrith?

Absolutely correct. The whole “us vs them” or “fibros vs silvertails” argument is a canard used by those seeking to justify their own biases.

100% ????

Joe, that’s just rubbish. As much as people would like the demise of the Emus from Shute Shield to be all about the supposed disdain the rest of Sydney holds for Penrith and the “westies”, the facts are just as jimmyjam states: everybody wanted Penrith Emus to succeed, everyone (that I’ve ever spoken to about the issue in over 40 years of my association with one of the big,bad, mega-rich (lol), SS clubs east of the city) understood that a strong rugby presence in Sydney’s west was important for the comp and the game, nobody was death-riding the Emus, more help was given to them than to any other club (including a cash gift in the six figure range from the other SS clubs after they passed the hat around back in the days (the early 1990s?) when they had money). Just three years ago, my own club took all our players, Grade and Colts, out to Nepean Rugby Park (one of the most pleasant venues in the competition, by the way, if a little off the beaten track as regards public transport) for a pre-season hit out. It wasn’t scheduled, we didn’t have to do it but we did it to help Emus. Many of our lower graders played in Emus jerseys that day because of the low numbers who turned out for Penrith. Nothing helped. It got to the stage, as we’ve seen, that Emus couldn’t field a majority of teams that the other clubs could, ie: 2nd, 3rd & 4th Grades plus lower grade Colts. This meant that Emus’ opponents had to scramble to find games for their own players in those teams who, having done the right thing and paid all their dues, attended training, etc, naturally wanted to play on the weekends. This went on for years. Then there were the times when Emus front-rowers had to play 2, sometimes 3, games on a Saturday because of their paucity of players for those positions, which then raised the very important question of player safety. Why should players from other SS clubs be continually disadvantaged re playing time because Emus just couldn’t get their act together year after year? To reduce the Emus situation vis a vis getting kicked out of SS to the repetitive, unimaginative, resentful and just plain wrong narrative of, “The other clubs just don’t want to get on the freeway out west on a mid-winter Saturday to play us because they’re all rich and they hate us because we wear high-vis vests”, to paraphrase a few of your comments, is passive-aggressive and erroneous. It reeks of a victim mentality. The canard of “fibros vs silvertails” may stir emotions but it’s not bloody true and I wish that people would stop endlessly bringing it up. Also, I don’t mean to dampen your enthusiasm around thinking outside the box to further rugby in Sydney’s west, but ideas for potential partnerships and arrangements with the Panthers have been brought to the table for decades. In fact, and I’m happy to be corrected here if I’m mistaken, I seem to recall a year or two’s sponsorship deal between Panthers and Emus happened some time ago. It didn’t cut the mustard for Panthers so it was never re-visited. Again, I stress that I’m ignorant of the inside workings of Emus’ board so I repeat that this was hearsay only on my end.

That's my point: don't stress about this Penrith Emus drama. Western Sydney is better having it's own comp anyway. :thumbup:

Not having a go at you Micko but then the whole western Sydney drama on the Roar a damp squib? I thought there must be thousands of potential players but we only need a club on the very eastern border of western Sydney with vacancies for a couple of teams and that is it? The SS is a competition that has been going for say 130 years for clubs between Parramatta and the coast. The be all and end all is not for a club to play in the SS but meet the needs of its community. For years all I read on the Roar is complaints about the SS and how its importance is massively overblown. Then the future of the world depends on Penrith Emus to be included in the SS? Western Sydney needs a Western Sydney solution, and it is not the inclusion of an underperforming club on its very western border being included in a competition centred 15km east of its eastern border.

Eels had a team in the NSL called the Parramatta Power

The Panthers already tried having a team in another sport that being Penrith City in the NSL, Penrith City played 2 seasons in the NSL and 1 in the NSW State League before folding and Keep in Mind Football is a far bigger deal in Western Sydney then Rugby will ever be

I thought they renamed the Parramatta SS club as "West Sydney". I'm saying this club can be the SS side for the whole region since Penrith can't maintain the players and teams for SS.

THIS ^^^

NSW has one professional rugby team and 9 development officers that try to cover the entire state of which one is designated for the entire central west NSW. Sydney alone has eight well funded NRL teams who all have semi-professional junior programs, their own development officers and professional coaches. On top of this the NSWRL have their own development programs and officers, all fully paid positions. There are another 2 NRL teams close by in Newcastle and Canberra who also boast the same level of resources. Lots of cash = lots of development officers = lots of visits.... get it? I keep saying it's about money because it is. This is David vs Goliath, but unfortunately David (RU) hasn't got any rocks in his bag right now so he's not even in the fight. RU don't have anyone to go into the missions because they don't have any cash. This is not elitism mate, this is cold hard economic reality. No cash = no development programs = no visits. I've tried to make my point, if you don't get it, well nothing more I can say.

Thanks Toa, this is a really important subject and priceless to get a view from someone on the ground who sees both sides of the fence. My own belief and experience is that there is no joy in investing time and effort with the NRL, they have their own plans and their own view of the world. Penrith are experts in nurturing young players and its a really good thing that they are providing opportunities to young players, but they won't be much help to rugby. Assuming rugby was going to invest into Western Sydney, what do you think of establishing a fully fledged District with its own competition, and ultimately a NRC equivalent side drawn from that competition? I just honestly do not see the value in trying to prop us one small club in such a large area. We can expect that player agents would be active in a NRC type competition so that would provide an incentive to young players looking to play football professionally, either here or overseas. What do young guys do when they fall off the ladder to the NRL? What would motivate them to give rugby a go?

nobody cares what race anyone is :laughing: :laughing: its the fact he feels the need to trumpet it at every opportunity possible But way to astronomically miss the point Toa solid work on the faux outrage

What a shame Mick, really thought you may be able to get through posting on a roar article without bringing up the race card :laughing: silly me :laughing: need to get rid of that big old salty chip on your shoulder Believe it or not, when they say there's no money they are talking about to pay staff to go out to regional areas on a more frequent basis to scout talent, it costs money to do something like that......logically how do you not connect the dots on that? And in League some 15 year olds do in fact get paid to play We get it, you're from the country, you're aboiginal, League talent scout go out to your area and Union ones don't. It's the same thing every single post :laughing: post something else

As an Aboriginal who lives in the area my experience is vastly different. I have seen many very talented kids in the mission and surrounding areas start playing League over Union because League actually go into these areas and talk to them. If Rugby wanted them, they would approach them. You keep saying it is about money but believe it or not 15 year olds do not get paid to play.

My personal experience coaching/recruiting in junior rugby says the exact opposite. The kids/families go to RL because they start getting cash/scholarships etc at the age of 15+. The fact is that most/all junior rugby is amateur with very little cash whereas the poker machine funded RL clubs like Panthers in Bathurst have cash to splash. RU is not elitist, it is cash strapped, and the kids/families understandably go where the best financial opportunities for them are. Rugby wants them, they just can't afford to compete against the financial clout of RL, in the juniors especially.

It is not just Western Sydney? In and around Bathurst all the Aboriginal kids from the missions all play League not Union. It is sad because some of them are so talented, yet because they do not have money Rugby does not want them.

I said I’ve never seen elitism in my experience. I have no idea what your personal experiences are. I’ve never commented on your experience other than to say I’ve never seen it ((elitism), ever, in over 50yrs associated with club rugby in Sydney. What I am saying is the reason there is no top grade rugby in Far Western Sydney is because there has NEVER been any top grade rugby in Far Western Sydney. The Emus were never a competitive Shute shield club in their entire history. They were promoted to the Shute shield when the game was still completely amateur as an initiative to grow the game there but it never came to fruition. In spite of the club having access to coaches like Scott Johnson, John Muggleton etc over the years. Are Melbourne or Perth Elitists cities because RL can’t grow over there? No, it’s because they prefer other sports for various reasons, mostly what they grew up playing and watching. If you want to know why RU isn’t successful in the Far West of Sydney you need to look a bit deeper than easy boogeymen sound bites like “Elitism” and face facts. Just as an FYI by the way, I grew up in a housing commission area in Western Sydney, have primarily working class friends and family, have played coached and administered rugby for around 50yrs and have many (including PI) friends and colleagues who wear high vis every day. I would absolutely love rugby to be successful in Penrith etc. I’ve been there dozens of times over the last few decades as a player and coach and nothing would make me happier to see them succeed. But anything short of a Billionaire dropping money over there to start paying and signing up every quality player over the age of 15 is doomed to fail.

they rewrote the criteria so Penrith could not meet it, how is that not kicking them out? now there is no more top grade Rugby in the far West of Sydney yet the Panthers have junior reps winning every grade, why? because they aren't afraid to pick kids from the rough areas and schools? Come to Mt Druitt and have a look around, one of the poorest areas in Sydney has virtually no Union presence but League is growing, and you are telling me this has nothing to do with Rugby culture in Australia. Really?