J-League: Can the A-League men learn from it, or is it out of our reach?

No, it takes up positions Australians could be played in. If you must get foreigners, decent European or South Americans. They have literally millions of untapped players going cheap.

@Chris - Can I tackle these 4 points step by step? I do this when having a beer with my mates who end up telling me, "It just will" 1/ It will join the whole football pyramid. I.e every club in Australia will have the opportunity to play at the apex. - Every club in Australia can join the ALM now or when the two new spots come available. They will just need the money to do it. As they would if they won promotion. From my experience, nearly every club in Australia already feels they are part of the football family, apart from 3 or 4 clubs in both Sydney and Melbourne, the rest are happy with the status quo. 2/ Supporters will have hope that their team could someday play in the top league. Having watched some Cup games, I'm not sure these supporters are that keen. They don't seem to want to support their club in a cup run. 3/ Every game in the A-League season will have meaning. Teams will be looking up just as passionately as looking down at the table if relegation is a possibility. Crowds and ratings naturally will increase given the importance of every game. Now this is the only valid point of the four. There is nothing more 'meaty' than a foot-of-the-table clash that says to a footballer you lose this game and you lose your wage packet. But maybe the Australian way of setting up a league format might be the way of the future. 4/ Player opportunities open up. More clubs, more opportunities. More money in the whole system because there are more “actors” in the whole scheme of things. The cream always rises to the top. Good players get found no matter where they play or who they play for. Not sure where the 'more money' comes from? The Australia Cup gives players at the NPL level an opportunity to show their talent, some do get a squad position most don't because the gap between a semi-pro club and a professional club is too great. FYI the proposed NSD is still going to be semi-pro.

More like the 80s and 90s saw the process speeding up where elite level talent was being drained away to Europe's top leagues especially after England (1978) and Italy (1980) opened their doors to foreign players. South America and Africa were especially affected by the flow going from trickle to a flood in this time.

Great article. A thought that occurred to me during the week is that perhaps our ambition for the APL should be that of what the National Basketball League has become: a developmental league. Albeit, it would be desirable - indeed necessary - for silverware in the ACL to be winnable in order to truly satisfy our footballing fanbase here at home. But for the most part I see the APL as presenting an opportunity to essentially become an U-23 league which can help springboard our bright talent and project them into the (hopefully) lofty heights of Europe. The means of achieving the concept outlined would require a whole-of-governing body effort. The introduction of a National Second Tier, the implementation of promotion/relegation, increase of the salary cap, higher quality marketing, and bulk investment into youth. Obviously I have no budget estimate to give, but I suspect that those basic ingredients would go the way of achieving a better Football Australia. Whilst I have been aggrieved at the quality of our game for some years now, I am optimistic in regards to the youth coming through. They are emerging in numbers not previously seen in this country and the desire to play in Europe appears strong. Of the overseas-based Olyroos, for example, virtually all of them are plying their trade in Europe with respectable clubs. Hopefully a trend to stay.

Well they used to have a list ten miles long of old players on big money. They're getting better, but they're certainly not perfect.

This action group thing is interesting, I remember hearing a story from someone that Lowy was blamed by others in Hakoah who didnt want the club removed from the NSL. I never heard about others trying to limit the spending on Sydney City.

They have a list a mile long of old players on big money.

The US team is different to the MLS. The MLS has stopped relying on old players and instead brought in the youth, leading to an improvement in quality in the league.

Jb The three levels as you would be aware at the A-League, the NSL, and the NSW lead 1955 revolution. The NSl & the NSW 55 revolution given the makeup of the teams was never going to be a successful with Main Stream Australia no mattere how successful... But IMO far worst was the very make up of the 55 clubs and many in the NSL was different in the sense they did not connect to the player base... arguably Newcastle teams and Glory did but the others mostly no... The main stream for want of a better term has never connected with the player base .... until the A_l can connect to the player base Football will struggle

Brainstrust - It always amazes me somewhat as to where you get your information . In the Hakoah FOOTBALL club Frank Lowy was the top dog., aided and abetted by his friend and associate Andrew Lederer who was also highly active in ASF matters such as being Manager of the Socceroos, so the contact between him and the better players in the country was established. What happened to the mighty Hakoah team of the early PSL days ? As the league progressed it became obvious that better players were needed if the top position was to be maintained and so began the countrywide search to snare players to the Bondi club. Leaders in this search were Hakoah and St George, another vaguely Hungarian connected club through it's chairman, who you too mention, Alex Pongrass. There is little doubt these indiviiduals would have 'dipped into their own pockets" to help the clubs but when I tell you that in 1982 the Hakoah Social Club was in fact spending in excess of $300,000 on the SOCCER team you will realise that something was evidently wrong with the club's expenditure program and it became more obvious when a new annually elected committee immediately formed an action group to look into this expenditure. And so began the political wrangle that as to see Lowy throw his hat into the ASF ring at an early 1980's AGM where it was immediately "stamped upon", resulting in his 20 year stay away from the game. By 1986/68 , the year of Sydney Hakoah's departure from the PSL the Action Group had succeeded in cutting the football expenditure from $400,000 down to $200,000 ,but the bubble had burst ,fans were staying away from games and support for the social club itself was in decline so that social club debts were beginning to escalate. So the old enemy of Australian football,the political interference into the game's workings, had once again brought a football team, many say the best ever in Australia ,to it's knees. You may ask me from where I got such intimate knowledge but it is no secret ,I have in my possession a book called "Hakoah Club Sydney 1938 to 1994 and everything I have used in this comment is straight from that book. Cheers jb.

Well in America baseball is where you can also be Joe Blow, middle aged and a huge girth and play. Do they have designated hitters in Japan. I haven't seen much Japanese baseball but everyone there is in good shape it seems.

Actually, I think that's a fair point. Much of the 90s are pre-internet, certainly pre social media and streaming, and even pre the big growth spurt in football-related video games, which all help market the top leagues (indeed, go out of their way to make everyone else look hopeless).

No one believed that Sydney City was making its money from crowds. The state leagues before the NSL , Italian and Greek clubs had the biggest crowds. Prague with their Austrian internationals would have required money from somewhere. I dont know whether Prague had a social club or rich backers. Social clubs were helping funding teams, St George Budapest though I dont think their social club would have made that much money, it would have required money from Pondgrass, Sydney City the amount they spent I doubt Hakoah social club covered it, Lowy and Lederer would have been dipping into their pockets. When Hakoah went out of the league Lowy and Westfield were in huge financial trouble, so if it hadn;t been for the recession they would have stayed in the NSL. Nothing has basically changed except instead of Sydney City you have Melbourne City without a social club even.

I am not talking in an Australian context but a global one. The saturation coverage and domination of European football was too overwhelming by the time the A-League came around. While it was still dominant in the 90s, there was still some time and space for a new professional league to win hearts and minds. But then maybe the local game was always going to suffer unfavourable comparisons.

the reverse is true the US team has gone downhill once they brought in the designated players/marquee rules.

The early 90's were good in terms of the media being independent. Basketball thrived in that era because they got fair treatment in the media, NSL in contrast was still a failure. Once the AFL started their work on monopolising media coverage then local basketball was cut out, NRL are now copying the AFL media control model as well.

The problem is not pro/rel the problem is a national second division. Pro/rel is really stupid in itself but nothing compared to the money drain of a national second division. Its clear those with links to ethnic clubs are not only trying to relive the past failures but this time they want to do it with FFA money. The second division being mainly paid for by the FFA seems to be a result of political manouvering to get rid of Lowy, who knows what dirty deals have been done to secure national second division suppport. License fees were used by the FFA once the Socceroos stopped earning the big bucks and they had the world cup bid to drain money, in the most recent case it was used by the original clubs to avoid sharing tv money with the new clubs. What has really set hearts flutter though has been the huge invstement into the A-league and clubs being sold for huge dollars. This has attracted the interest with all these beggars, and they are busy producing these delusions why they need both pro/rel and a national second division. They want to grab a piece of the action, the spectator support however is insufficient to sustain even one division of 12 clubs at the moment nationally.

Can you summarise those reasons?

The irony of your comments is the FFA were the owners when they first made the grand final. Then they sold most of the club to the Bakries and then the rest. Roar were a big problem club for the FFA financially, it was a big cover up how much finacial support they have received.. The Roar were less of an issue in the initial shorter season. As soon as the seasons were expanded then they became a big problem and to coincide with the huge money drain from the Fury as well, we will never how much money the FFA sunk into them before the Bakries sale. The club that has been exploited by the FFA as far as revenue were Sydney FC, they were the only club to pay the 1 million license fee in full at the start .they were made to give most of their Club world cup money away to other clubs, they got most of the marquee players early in the league without any marquee player fund, and when they landed the biggest fish of all Del Piero, they were given a paltry amount of money the same given for Heskey and Ono.

Rodger I'm not sure people just say "because it will" when you ask them why will pro/rel work. Here are a few reasons. 1/ It will join the whole football pyramid. I.e every club in Australia will have the opportunity to play at the apex. 2/ Supporters will have hope that their team could someday play in the top league. 3/ Every game in the A-League season will have meaning. Teams will be looking up just as passionately as looking down at the table if relegation is a possibility. Crowds and ratings naturally will increase given the importance of every game. 4/ Player opportunities open up. More clubs, more opportunities. More money in the whole system because there are more "actors" in the whole scheme of things.