Wallabies coach Eddie Jones’ says his tough love is already paying dividends as he fights to rid Australian rugby of a “loser mentality” and races “hell for leather” towards three big pieces of silverware this year.
Jones appeared on The Roar Rugby podcast on Tuesday, where he was typically forthright and expansive on the challenges facing the Wallabies in the Rugby Championship, Bledisloe Cup and World Cup campaigns in 2023.
He also cleared up his post World Cup plans, gave Brumbies’ Stephen Larkham the seal of approval as a future Wallabies coach, explained how England cricket’s Bazball phenomenon was shaping his approach and revealed his “blame” for England’s failure to win in 2019.
The Roar Rugby Podcast hosts Brett McKay and Harry Jones were joined by Wallabies coach Eddie Jones. Listen to the full chat in the player below or on your podcast app of choice
Jones made waves when he named his first squad earlier this year with some big name omissions. It was seen as a chance to shake up some players who were off form – and he praised two of those who have responded well – Reds duo Harry Wilson and Tate McDermott.
“Yes, we have seen some improvement,” said Jones. “I thought Queensland towards the end of the season, played remarkably well. At the forefront of their charge was Harry Wilson and Tate McDermott. They were outstanding.
“That’s good to see, because we did leave them out of the squad, we did think they needed to work on certain areas of the game. They worked on that. So that’s been promising.
Eddie Jones. (Photo by Adam Davy/PA Images via Getty Images)
“But there’s been other players that have been disappointing. They get another chance in camp this week at Coogee.”
One thing is clear – the Wallabies players won’t be getting their egos stroked at this week’s camp ahead of Sunday’s squad announcement for the Rugby Championship.
“Let’s face the facts, Australia has won 38% of their Tests since 2015,” Jones said. “There’s not too many players here that have done well. That’s the reality of the situation.
“In Super Rugby, we’ve had one team that went over 50% in the last eight years, and the rest are below 40%. So players need to improve.
“I’m not going to play the game. All I’m going to do is create an environment for them to be better in. They’ve got to accept that they’re part of the problem and a massive part of the solution. And if they are prepared to work harder and be smarter about their preparation, be more focused, then we can smash and grab and win the Bledisloe Cup, win the rugby championship and win the World Cup. Imagine that!”
Asked if Jones was aiming to keep some players in reserve for the RWC when naming his TRC squad he countered: “In all frankness, we’re going hell for leather. It’s a sprint. We’ve got a 1200 metre sprint, which is the Pretoria [game against South Africa next month], Bledisloe Cup, Rugby Championship, and then we go into a Melbourne Cup prep.
“Without taking the games for granted in the World Cup pools, that’ll be our first game we need to peak for – the quarterfinal.
“So we’ll go hell out for the Rugby Championship because we need the win. We need to get people excited about the Wallabies again. And if we’re good enough, we’ll win that and then we go in with a fair bit of confidence and a fair bit of support. And that’s the team we want to be.”
Jones said the failures of Australian teams in Super Rugby was upsetting.
“As the Australian coach, when you’ve got only one team in the semi finals, you can’t be pleased, because it means most of our players are playing in losing teams. And you can develop a losing mentality,” said Jones.
“Special players can exclude themselves from that. But if you continue playing in a team that’s getting beaten, then that becomes the norm for you. And they train like that, they play like that, they think like that.
“Let’s be frank, with our resources in Australian rugby we should have at least three teams in the top six. That would be a fair result. And we don’t have that.”
His key focus area is making mindset shifts.
“Generally coaching at the international level, it’s more about behaviour change than coaching rugby,” Jones said.
“We don’t improve the skills of the players, we don’t improve their ability to step off the left foot or throw a 50 metre pass. We’ve got to just find players who are prepared to play as part of the team, prepared to play a different role, because we do need to play differently from Super Rugby teams. And they need to be bloody tough.”
Jones has been everywhere since returning from England, but there were hints that not everyone was receptive to his presence.
“I’ve been actively getting out to the Super Rugby teams. Some coaches, you have a better relationship with than others and you talk more to them. Some coaches want to chat, and some guys just don’t want to chat,” said Jones.
“I was a Super Rugby coach for two teams and I understand their point of trying to do the best for their franchise and for their players. If they want to talk, then I’m available to talk. But if they don’t want to chat, then I certainly don’t impose myself on them.”
Jones, who said he was barely sleeping ahead of his first competitive squad selection, is driven by the failure of his England team in 2019.
What lessons has he learned from then?
“Never think that everything’s okay,” he said. “You’ve always got to be mining for conflicts, mining for problems, and we probably got seduced a bit in 2019. We did. It was my fault.
“We thought we were right, ready to go. But we hadn’t dug deep enough. There were still a few grenades lying around from the 2015 World Cup and when you least expect it they explode on you and then you can’t recover from them. And that was a fairly harsh coaching pill to swallow.”
Jones has always borrowed ideas from other codes, and currently it’s the Ashes that are getting him through the sleepless nights as he plots creative ways to give his team an edge.
“One of the things that has changed since I was here last time is the demographics of the team. There’s a much stronger influence of Pacific players,” said Jones.
“When I coached [in 2003] we were traditionally underpowered versus New Zealand and now we probably don’t have a power differentiation.
“But what we need to do is still play smart rugby – so we’ve got to be bashing down the front door and at the same time trying to find the code for the back door.
“That to me, is Australian rugby now. That’s where we can have a point of difference. It has to be the smartest rugby.
“I was watching the Ashes and Usman Khawaja was batting. It’s a slow pitch and they’ve got basically got a ring of four and they are encouraging him to play square. And then [Ollie] Robinson bowls full. And it’s a brilliant piece of cricket tactics.
“And we have to be good enough at times to be able to execute like that. Play different ways. Not getting bullied in contests, play smarter, play fast and sometimes play so slow and play with power.”
That ties in with the three big themes of his tenure.
“The big thing for us, is getting that balance between playing a power possession based game and being smart about the way we play rugby,” Jones said.
“The second thing will just be selection. We’ve got a number of good talented players here. But how do we put them into a team that wants to fight and wants to be a team that people sit on the edge of their seats, because they want to watch them play?
“That’s what we need the Wallabies to be – that sort of team. And then the third thing is creating an environment in a short period of time, where people want to come they’re knocking down the door. And there’s enough hard work and enough enjoyment in the environment to make them give a bit more.”
Meanwhile Jones clarified his future after telling a UK podcast he would only have the job until the end of the World Cup, despite being contracted through to 2027.
“I’ve signed to go with Australia again. And if If they still want me post the World Cup, then I’ll be there,”” said Jones.
“If they don’t, then then you know, there’s pretty good young coaches coming through. I think Stevie Larkham is going to make a fantastic Wallabies coach – a couple more years at the Brumbies, but I think he’ll make a very good coach. He’s matured a lot.”
Stephen Larkham of the Brumbies looks on ahead of the round five Super Rugby Pacific match between Crusaders and ACT Brumbies at Orangetheory Stadium, on March 24, 2023, in Christchurch, New Zealand. (Photo by Joe Allison/Getty Images)
Jones said Larkham’s time in Europe with Munster gave him crucial experience.
“If you look at the most successful All Black coaches, they’ve all coached in the northern hemisphere,” said Jones. “The northern hemisphere teaches you that grit and the seriousness of set piece.
“In Australia with Super Rugby, we still haven’t understood how important the set piece is to win the game, apart from the Brumbies.
“There’s four other teams in Australia that needs to understand that. And we need that players that understand that’s the basis of the game.
“Look at Canberra, every time they get in trouble. What do they do? They go back to the scrum and back to their driving maul.”
cs
Roar Guru
Is there perchance a good published account of this fiasco Brett?
Sofa Coach
Roar Rookie
G'day Brett I rarely find fault on anything you post, but this comment seems to me to be slightly uncharacteristic for you. Both EJ and Bliks are right. Setting high standards and asking tough questions is what needs to become standard in rugby in Oz if we want the game to survive and thrive here. Of course, any progress is likely not going to come easy otherwise it would have already been achieved. The degree of difficulty of the questions being asked or their solutions is no grounds for not pursuing them. I can hear JFK's famous speech ringing in my ears as I type! We're not talking about orchestrating a moon landing here using slide rules and set squares! We're just talking about achieving a standard that not so long ago was our national expectation. Whether we can or cannot do so by leveraging central contacts really doesn't matter. Set the goal. Set it really high. Then use whatever tools you have to achieve it. Don't accept failure. I expect Eddie is a JFK fan.
Sofa Coach
Roar Rookie
Ummm maybe WB... but... Do Wilson, Swinton, Swain, Hanigan, Neville, Philip, McDermott, both Wrights, the Lonergan brothers, Dalgunu, Toole, Nawaqanitawase, Perese, Campbell, Hooper, McReight, Hodge,《insert player name here》lack heart? There are plenty of capped Wallabies and newbies in Eddie's squad whose hearts are not their greatest limitation...
Sofa Coach
Roar Rookie
One Eye, I suspect that comment from EJ was intended to be interpreted with some context. I highly doubt that he's going to be coaching any side to kick away possession from inside the opposition 22. I expect with his 3 phase possession comments that EJ was referring to tactics in between the 22s and most especially inside an attacking teams' own half. Teams hammering away on an oppositions' try line during these SRP finals did not intentionally turn over possession after 3 phases, and nor have France, Ireland, SA, the ABs or Eddie's England.
Ken Catchpole's Other Leg
Roar Guru
Sofa, I agree with all of that. With one caveat. I’d change ‘naughty’ to ‘silly’. Both archeological deckchairs on the old WB Titanic, now salvaged and cruising’ for a bruisin’.
Sofa Coach
Roar Rookie
Love it, Ken! Super pun that! However, the caveat to your well made point is that Quade has walked a very long road with a heavy cross on his back and a crown of thorns to make his transition from Very Naughty Boy to Messiah. For all Wright's obvious strengths, there are few Aussie rugby players in the professional era as equally mercurial and talented and flawed as the young Quade. Sure, he's lost the pace of his youth, but he has more than compensated for that with his growth in rugby intelligence and leadership, and the improvement in his once turnstile D. And his distribution IMO remains unparalleled by any who I have ever seen play the game. In that aspect he is the Tom Brady of rugby. I think Tom Wright has loooong way to go to before we compare him to Quade (other than in their similarly atrocious defence and decision making at the same stages of their careers). I suspect that Stin is probably "Wright" that this is precisely the player who Eddie was considering in his comment. There are not too many others in his reckoning that that particular charge applies to. Toole, Swain, Swinton, Fainga'a... maybe? But for most of Eddie's "problem" players who he has singled out for tough love, eg. Wilson, Tate, Lolo, Dono, et al, the problem is not so much wild variations between brilliance and calamity, but rather eeking out that extra 5% or fixing that obvious weakness (i.e. Wilson running too upright and straight into contact, Tate not being able to pass left to right, Lolo not having the confidence to play flat to the line, etc) that is preventing these players from being considered guaranteed selections
KTinHK
Roar Pro
I too would push that line if The Roar put food on my table ????
Thanks. I recently changed the privacy setting on DuckDuckGo search and apparently that was the problem. Disabled the setting and everything back to normal.
Wizz
Roar Rookie
That goes for many teams...
Brett McKay
Expert
I wouldn't have thought so. Sounds like something in your browser if stopping the page widgets loading. Either way, click on the Wallabies Fixtures links at the top of the page here..
I thought I replied earlier but it is not shown. No kids here so I tried your link and it is the same result. Surely they do not have a geo blocker like all of the videos on this site.
Brett McKay
Expert
It's definitely there TT. I can see the full fixture. The last part of your last sentence may well be the answer..
That is the site I have always used but there is still nothing there as of now. The RC says it is loading but never does. Maybe they have put in a geo blocker as I am not in Oz or some kid has changed things.
Brett McKay
Expert
That's got nothing to do with the contracting system though WB, that's just international eligibility policies. And the Australian sides do operate under a salary cap now..
Ken Catchpole's Other Leg
Roar Guru
Brett, I won’t know if Eddie reads the Roar till I see if he has followed my selection and tactic advice. I find it difficult to believe that he would read my words without agreeing with them.
Nobody
Roar Rookie
Sometimes it’s a fine line between confidence and obtuseness
Nobody
Roar Rookie
Not as Nobody. But I’m not even the only Nobody on the roar. The world is full of nobodies.
Passit2me
Roar Rookie
On the whole, our SR teams have competed well when our defence and ruck focus were on song. We can learn a bit from the QLD League defence which looked similar to the Reds defence against the Chiefs. I think Eddie could do much worse than keep a strong focus on defensive pressure, the way he did in 2003 and combine this with Ruck speed and precision for quick ball. I still feel that in attack, we have the backs to win far more games, but the above mentioned aspects need serious work for more consistency. But, Eddie will need his sleep to function properly. We process a heck of a lot of info when we sleep, so no point having a dazed and confused coach. Trust the process :thumbup:
Wheelbarrow
Roar Rookie
If they play super rugby , they are eligible for their country- open it up. Let’s get equal talent and have it across the board. A draft won’t work, but salary cap will be better.
Passit2me
Roar Rookie
"It bugs me somewhere that Bernie seemed to have been made a scapegoat between Cheika and Castles et al".. It did me too cs, I was absolutely filthy about it. Cheika's out of the blue comment that our attack wasn't aligning with our defence, stank of a scapegoat excuse. From memory, Castle pretty much put the ball in Cheika's court. Either make a change or walk. If it worked, then it was a master stroke. If it failed, nothing lost as we were in the dumpsters anyway.