Is SANZAAR's new under 20 tournament the silver bullet for player development, or a step too late?

By Brendan NH Fan / Roar Rookie

Over this last under 20s Championship much has been made of the approach taken by the European and non-European sides.

Things such as France being bigger, which is not supported by the statistics, and both France and Ireland were average compared to everyone else.

Another thing SANZAAR finally has noticed is the need for an under 20s SANZAAR tournament leading up to the June event.

A lot has been made of the massive benefit of the under 20s 6 Nations, but this has been running as long as the Championship so this is not the only reason why. My two previous articles have looked at French Club – rugby this will look at European underage tournaments.

1. Overall results

Team = Average placement/2016-19/2012-15/2008-11 (Difference between 2008-2011 and 2016-2019)

#1 New Zealand = 2.6/4.3/2.5/1.0 (+3.3) #12 Fiji = 12.3/14.3/12.8/10.0 (+4.3)
#2 England = 2.6/2.5/2.8/2.5 (0.0) #13 Japan = 13.4/12.5/13.3/14.5 (-2.0)
#3 South Africa = 3.0/3.3/2.3/3.5 (+0.5) #14 Tonga = 15.5/19.5/15.5/11.5 (+8.0)
#4 France = 4.7/3.8/5.3/5.0 (-1.2) #15 Georgia = 15.5/9.8/16.8/20.0 (-10.2)
#5 Australia = 4.8/4.8/6.3/3.5 (+1.3) #16 Canada = 16.8/19.0/16.3/15.3 (+3.7)
#6 Wales = 5.8/6.8/4.5/6.0 (+0.8) #17 Uruguay = 16.9/16.5/17.8/16.5 (0.0)
#7 Argentina = 7.2/6.0/7.0/8.5 (-2.5) #18 USA = 17.9/20.0/15.3/18.5 (+1.5)
#8 Ireland = 7.3/7.5/6.0/8.5 (-1.0) #19 Namibia = 18.9/16.5/19.3/21.0 (-4.5)
#9 Scotland = 9.3/8.8/9.3/9.8 (-1.0) #20 Portugal = 19.4/15.5/19.8/23.0 (-7.5)
#10 Italy = 10.9/9.0/11.8/12.0 (-3.0) #21 Spain = 21.1/19.3/21.0/23.0 (-3.7)
#11 Samoa = 11.5/15.0/9.8/9.8 (+5.2)

As not every team qualifies each year, those who failed to qualify in 2008 and 2009 were given a rank of 25, while those 2010-2019 were given a rank of 21. This is because the number of teams dropped from 24 to 20 across both the trophy and Championship.

Teams such as Argentina who have a minus number implies they are getting better, while those with a positive figure like Australia are getting worse.

First what we see is teams like England and South Africa have had very little movement over the 12 years on their average placing and both again this year were in the final 4. Another thing you notice is that apart from New Zealand and Italy, none of other Tier 1 Nations (6 Nations and Rugby Championship) have really changed much.

New Zealand’s issue is they were so good from 2008-2015, they were eventually going to drop. The worry for them is where will they balance out. Italy have been a big improver and since securing promotion in 2014 have stayed in the Championship. They have yet to break out of the bottom 4, but at least they are in the Championship now.

(Photo by World Rugby/World Rugby via Getty Images)

The big one that most will have spotted is Georgia, who struggled to win the European spot for many years but when they did qualify they generally did well. In 2016 they played in the Championship for the first time and have never looked back. This year they finished 8th, their highest ever performance. But they are not the only European teams making improvements and that is what I want to look at.

When we look at the Pacific Island and North American teams they have made a continuous decline as they lost their places in the Championship and were soon fighting it out with each other just to get into the Trophy. Like Europe, sometimes the hard qualification makes the teams better but Samoa and Tonga are really struggling lately.

2. Europe v Everyone else

As I have discussed in other articles and comments, the 6 Nations and SANZAAR are two completely different organisations. Rugby Europe is blessed and cursed to be stuck with the 6 Nations, as I will go into later. SANZAAR has only ever been about the men’s games and nothing else so each union has been left to its own devices to improve underage.

This week SANZAAR announced that they will now start to run an under 20s tournament, believing this will close the gap on France and other European nations, but this is looking at the surface rather than looking under the hood of the European engine.

Maybe it was this tournament that finally made SANZAAR act, or maybe it was in the works all along but not having the four underage teams competing each year has always been a negative for player development. With Italy and Georgia getting wins over Rugby Championship teams this may finally have forced the change.

While watching ‘The Breakdown’ following the Australia v New Zealand series, the person associated with the New Zealand under 20s team discussed how underprepared their props were compared to their Australian counterparts and the 6 Nations teams. But Georgia doesn’t take part in the 6Ns, nor does South Africa, yet one has improved and the other has remained at the top.

(Photo by World Rugby/World Rugby via Getty Images)

In a previous piece I went over why the French players are better prepared as they were not bigger than other teams (except for Tuilagi) and often were average in most positions, but they played at a much higher level. But it is all Europe that is improving not just France. What Georgia and Italy did this year Spain and Portugal have been doing for he last 4 years to Samoa, Canada, Uruguay etc.

Spain are in the Trophy this year and the big question is will they finish 2nd or 3rd to Samoa. Spain have only been in the Trophy once before and that was 2016 as Georgia moving up to the Championship had allowed the next European team to take a go at the Trophy. They lost in the final to Samoa 38-32 after extra time. Samoa had been in the Championship level for all but 1 of the previous 8 years, so to barely beat a debut team was a shock. Portugal then where at the next 3, picking up 2 finals and a 3rd place finish. In 2019 Japan beat Portugal 35-34 in the final.

When there were 16 teams in the Championship there were 5 or 6 European teams, there are now 6 Europeans with the 7th and 8th best teams most likely to play out the final in the Trophy. Portugal this year are only the 10th best European team this year after the Netherlands got to the European final.

3. The European Engine

Like the World Rugby, SANZAAR believes that having under 20s tournaments are all that is needed to match the European teams, but in reality most teams apart from South Africa and Argentina used to participate in some form of regional competition, be that the Oceania Rugby Under 20 Championship or European qualifiers. The difference is for European teams it is step 2 rather than step 1 of their underage Test journey.

Have you ever wondered how French Clubs are able to spot so many Georgians to be able to bring them into the French academy system? This has powered their underage development or why more and more under 20s are making their senior debut in the European Rugby Championship. One of these players is Alberto Carmona who at 19 has played 5 games for Spain in the Championship where he played 80 minute games against Portugal, Georgia and Romania.

(Photo by Dan Mullan/Getty Images)

He is not with the under 20s (as a senior test player he is not allowed) but is instead doing pre-season with Toulon where he has been since 2022. Carmona came to prominence in the under 18s team for Spain which is where all the top scouts go to pick up the best players. Before he moved to France he was playing in the South of Spain miles away from the spotlight.

Make sure of your place in the stands to see the British and Irish Lions in 2025. Tour packages on sale now at Wallabies Travel

Carmona is not unique, and every year the top 20-30 teams excluding the 6 Nations teams (since 2016) play each other in 3-4 divisions. The best players get to show off on the international stage looking to get picked up by the scouts. The under 18 and under 20s sevens tournaments are no different. If you want to know who is likely to represent Europe in the 2024 under 20s Trophy, take a quick glance at the European under 18s 2022 and 2023 tournaments.

European rugby is copying European soccer for how to get the best players to the best teams and allowing them to show their ability. For SANZAAR they don’t realise that the battles taking place in the 6 Nations under 20s is round two after the same teams played each other in the under 18s. These 18 year olds are made aware of the level they need to attain to be an international. Yes the club structure helps, but it’s the international under 18s that feeds into the system.

4. What should SANZAAR and World Rugby do?

It doesn’t take a genius to work out that the European system is now working. When a team like Spain who are only in their second ever Trophy Tournament are looking to make the final, even though teams like Samoa, the USA and Uruguay have much more experience in the tournament.

If Spain had not made it the Netherlands or Portugal would be looking to do the same. No other region can do this because they aren’t blessed with the same benefits.

Europe is richer, smaller and there are a lot more teams than any other region but SANZAAR and World Rugby need to get together and organise some sort of under 18 tournament to go with a 2 divisional under 20s tournament.

If they don’t, more and more European teams are going to get into the Championship and a team like Japan or Fiji will have to run the gauntlet of beating the next European nation to take their place. This will also have a knock on effect for the senior teams.

We have already seen teams like Georgia, Romania, Spain and Portugal pass teams like Canada, Namibia and possibly the USA. As they get more and more under 20s into professional setups their senior teams are going to get better.

The 6 Nations under 21s started in 2004 when the Under 21s Championship was started by World rugby. That changed to the under 20s in 2008 when World Rugby did the same thing. The European under 18s and under 20s started the same year. If it has taken 20 years for SANZAAR to get under 20s going, hopefully it doesn’t take another 20 years to get an under 18s.

Japan, one of the teams to have improved at under 20s, wants to work with Australia with schoolboys, maybe they understand that this is where it starts.


The Crowd Says:

AUTHOR

2023-07-29T11:28:57+00:00

Brendan NH Fan

Roar Rookie


I'll have to go find that one on Aus

2023-07-29T06:32:03+00:00

JD Kiwi

Roar Rookie


It's just occurred to me that this is a bit like what Australia did with their schoolboys teams during their golden era (see the article I published about the same time as this one - I missed you there!) The other advantage that gives you is that your golden generation have been playing together since they were kids which is brilliant for cohesion. Another advantage for Europe at the moment.

AUTHOR

2023-07-28T12:31:57+00:00

Brendan NH Fan

Roar Rookie


Its the one benefit Europe have (as Scotland will find out in the u20s) that no one else really has except for maybe Africa and that is were each team is just a bit better of a bit worse than the teams around them and so anyone who has a bad pathway falls down the ladder. If we take it that the top 7 teams are the 6Ns and Georgia going off the u20s in 2022 you have. #8 Spain who beat Netherlands 13-6 a smaller margin than their 28-10 win v Samoa. #9 Netherlands beat Portugal 19 -14. #10 Portugal beat Belgium in the 3rd place playoff 27-22. #11 Belgium beat Romania 18-6 in the quarters. #12 Romania beat Poland 34-9 in the 5th place playoff. These 4 teams are the ones who are currently as good or better than teams in the Trophy already which means for Spain their u20s are getting 6 quality games at u20s while Canada and Tonga who failed to qualify but are similar level only got two games against their regional rival. Romania did finish 8th in the u18s last years so they are either dropping or the others are getting better, Spain beat them 102-0 and will struggle to get better until they tackle their system.

AUTHOR

2023-07-28T12:07:42+00:00

Brendan NH Fan

Roar Rookie


But the big part is how do the NZ and RA players get the 9-18 months of professional training that most of the Irish, French and English are getting in some form. At u 18 for T2 in Europe you can chart who will be good at the under 20s because a Spanish kid who thinks he is amazing is getting shoved in the dirt by a Georgian so he goes back home and works harder to be better when they meet next time. That Georgian and Spaniard are both looking for a professional contract in France so they know they need to be at their best. Until NZ and Oz get that then u20s helps but the other lads are 2 more years down the track.

AUTHOR

2023-07-28T12:02:32+00:00

Brendan NH Fan

Roar Rookie


While the 150kg comment is a bit tongue in cheek I get his point. In the France v NZ game France had a #7 who was 10kg lighter than any NZ forward and the France #4 was 1 kg heavier than NZ's lightest player. The big thing for the two packs was the French were stronger and were better technically at their role while NZ was much more 8 big players doing their own stuff. NZ have the really short u20s comp in March or so but its 3 rounds of knockouts 19-25th. Irish lads are getting 6 u19 games, English are getting Prem Cup and I wrote an article about France and why they have nearly a team with t14 experience where their two locks had 1200 minutes between them. Hugo AURADOU is 102 kg his NZ opposite number was Tahlor CAHILL is 113 kg but still not ready to get SRP experience but will next year as SRP teams only look at most forwards after their u20s year. Lenni NOUCHI 107kg has 500+ minutes of Montpellier at #6 was also massive but he isn't really that big who is smaller that Peter LAKAI (who himself showed what some SR gametime can do).

AUTHOR

2023-07-28T11:43:46+00:00

Brendan NH Fan

Roar Rookie


That would be good but I think the u20s RC and having 8 teams is just as easy as 5 (other than cost). But it doesn't fix the problem of when players get international experience. Watching the Spain v Samoa game Spain had a much better kicking game and well set defense which is because at u18s they have to deal with Georgia. Having SR A game may help but right now the u19s Irish provincial sides are getting ready to play and that will determine the the u20s squad and also allow the URC teams to see who they need to put into the A squads or atleast give game time to. RC need to sit down with WR and sort something out because if they don't its going to be Spain or Portugal who take another Championship spot and then Japan and Fiji could be out. I think Scotland will get it right in the end and with the 6N u18 and u20s they will know the level they need to be at just like Georgia did and now Spain/Portugal and these along with Belgium and Netherlands are getting more and more into the French system.

AUTHOR

2023-07-28T11:35:27+00:00

Brendan NH Fan

Roar Rookie


For Scotland their worries start sooner than that. As they are nolonger the relegated team they must come through the European tournament that for Spain was difficult. They had missed out to Samoa in Extra time in 2016 and then they couldn't qualify again for 3 tournaments as Portugal topped European qualification. Japan also only beat Portugal by 1pt in 2019 so they are in no way assured of getting past either Spain or Uruguay. I think we are at a point where we can go back to 16 teams and do 4 groups. The problem is that Portugal or the Netherlands would be favourites to get promoted the first year and then there could be 9 European teams in the Championship. But its where we want to be.

2023-07-28T04:53:55+00:00

Working Class Rugger

Roar Guru


That's something I've given some consideration as well. But more focused on domestic SR A/extended squad games. Primarily because it could be run before the U20s TRC where as entering a team in the NPC in NZ would be after the JWC. How it would work is fairly simple. Games are already played among SR A/extended squads at least in Aus and this would be an expansion of that. The 5 franchises plus the U20s teams. At a minimum a single round robin but ideally home and away for 10 games. Club games are fine but at least in theory this would present a higher standard of play which is what is need. But probably the best opportunity would be entering them in a SRP A competition that runs alongside SRP. Or at least have them playing in one of the SRP A squads at a minimum. While the most talent would obviously be playing SRP proper.

2023-07-28T04:41:52+00:00

Spew_81

Roar Rookie


The under 20 SANZAAR tournament is a good start. Another method to get the under 20 players more games, without having to travel overseas. Is for them to play against premier club teams. This would work well in New Zealand as there are lots of good clubs. The more games the under 20s play they more the better they will build cohesion. Laidlaw also said “We want to win, let’s never forget that, but these men have never come up against forwards that are 150kgs and two or three of them all in the same forward pack, so we have got to learn how we deal with that.“. There are plenty of huge (and relatively mobile) players in the New Zealand club scene. Why not get the local provisional chairperson to ask their clubs to supply some big units for the under 20s to practice against? This would be especially beneficial for the front rows as they would face seasoned campaigners who know the dark arts well and can pass them on. Another, more left field idea, is to have a New Zealand under 20 development team in the NPC or Heartland competition. That would provide lots of games to get team cohesion and playing experienced campaigners would toughen them up and teach them a lot.

2023-07-28T04:32:00+00:00

Working Class Rugger

Roar Guru


On the U20s TRC and it's likely impact. Something that has been missing for the likes of Aus, Arg and NZ has been more quality game time against similar level competition. This will help address this to an extent. But more is probably needed beyond just 3 games leading into the JWC. At least from an Australian perspective would be a proper SRP A program featuring at least the 5 Aus and NZ extended squads running alongside SRP. Regarding the likes of Fiji, Japan, Samoa and Tonga. Well, that is a little tricker but both Aus and NZ could look to continue the Oceania series as a lead in to the TRC as well. Or what would be good is a fifth TRC qualifier slot is created with the winner of the 2024 TRC Challenger Series (which is what it could be called) edition assuming that spot for the 2025 U20s TRC or just give it to Fiji in 2024 and then have the 5th placed TRC team play the winner of the Challenger Series in a pro/rel game. You could then invite the likes of Uruguay to play in the Challenger series to keep it at 4. Possibly another to bring it to 5 as well.

2023-07-28T04:16:12+00:00

Working Class Rugger

Roar Guru


The JWRT next year will be very interesting as there will be two T1 nations in Scotland and Japan looking to make their way back up to the JWC.

2023-07-27T21:13:14+00:00

JD Kiwi

Roar Rookie


Top analysis again Brendan! We have a step in the right direction but we're still a step behind. I look forward to the continued development of the likes of Spain and Georgia.

AUTHOR

2023-07-26T19:30:56+00:00

Brendan NH Fan

Roar Rookie


The reason I used T2 Europe is they have no money at all but must do it themselves. They are doing it themselves so that one day they will have money. If you look at 2004 - 2007 when there was an u19 and u21 nations like USA, Canada, Fiji, Samoa and Tonga where the equal or better than Italy. Since going to u20s only Europe and recently South America do the two levels of underage. For SRP most players join a SR team in the pack after their u20 tournament. How many Poloso Tuilagi are there in Samoa or Tonga who would be picked up by an NPC team if there was an u18 comp. The big problem for the PIs is that as European teams increased in the Championship only 1 could make the Trophy as Ocenia gets 1 spot which means again next year either Tonga or Samoa's u20s will miss out. Oceania is currently the only place outside Europe where 5 competitive teams can be put into a competition, if Oz and NZ invest in u18 with the PIs they get 5 strong teams, if they don't you end up with just two.

AUTHOR

2023-07-26T19:14:53+00:00

Brendan NH Fan

Roar Rookie


For those who didn't hear Uraugay beat Scotland which means Spain and Uragauy will play in the final to be promoted up to the Championship. South Ametica has looked to copy Europe (even tried the American 6 Nations and South America also has an u18s.

2023-07-26T18:27:29+00:00

The Ferret

Roar Rookie


Thanks Brendan - Very informative The Problem with building these tournaments in the south is going to be funding... Samoa, Fiji, Tonga are team we all want to see grow and are defiantly going to need financial support

Read more at The Roar