Let me start by saying that I am an unashamed Israel Folau fan and think that he is one of the very best footballers in Australia of any description.
It’s probably not a stretch to say that, considering his young age, he has revolutionized some aspects of the game of rugby league and successfully brought the game to many Victorian fans who would have once known very little about it.
One unfortunate aspect about the current speculation of whether Folau will follow the money trail or stick with what he does best is that it presents an opportunity for people to make silly comments about certain football codes in the absence of any empirical evidence.
So I was pleased to read some intelligent commentary on the subject on the weekend in The Sunday Age, from no less an expert than the Storm’s very own physical performance coach, Alex Corvo.
Most are already aware that Folau is not a noted kicker of the footy in League currently, so that immediately puts him behind Hunt in terms of the capacity to adapt relatively quickly (in what is already going to be a very big ask for Hunt to begin with).
Corvo made the further observation that a great an athlete as Folau is (and he’s certainly that), he is conditioned for short, powerful bursts rather than constant running.
Many league fans are probably unaware that in your average 120 minute Australian Football game, even allowing for the many breaks players have in the modern game with an unlimited interchange, about 18 of the 22 players are running 16 to 18 kilometres per game at an average pace that would make most mortals physically sick within five minutes.
Think about running ten 100 metre sprints in less than three minutes, and you’ll start to get a picture of the exertion and aerobic capacity demanded of most players these days.
Corvo makes the surprising admission that in his days at the Storm, Folau often trailed the forwards in endurance drills.
He wryly says further: “He’s not an aerobic athlete at all … the unlimited interchange in the AFL will certainly get a workout with Israel in the team.”
His main chance is to be played in one of those positions where he’s not running 16 to 18 kilometres per game, but could he really hold down a key position?
In any event, even a specialist key position forward like Barry Hall is running 12 kilometres, much of that made up of one 50 to 60 metre sprint after the other, over and over and over. And he might only touch the ball once every five or six of those sprints, or not at all for a whole quarter.
So without showing any disrespect at all to Folau, it’s really a double whammy: no kicking skills and lacking the requisite aerobic capacity.
If the AFL were to throw $1 million a year at such a player, it would so obviously be a publicity stunt, and potentially, it could prove so humiliating for the player concerned, that I’m not sure the stunt is worth the risk.
If it’s true Folau has been offered the money, I hope for his own sake, and that of the AFL, that he rejects it and continues doing what he does best.
AFL Fitness
Guest
Those sprint distances are a bit exaggerated. AFL is played in high intensity bursts mixed with low intensity periods like Rugby (intermittent nature). The average explosive burst would probably be shorter in Rugby but not excessively so (15-20m would be the average high intensity burst). Where the difference is, is there is much greater volume of low intensity running (75% or less of max effort) to get into position playing on a larger field in Australian Rules Football, and possibly less/shorter rest (no work) periods where the play stops.
Mister Football
Roar Guru
Further to that, there seems to be a consensus emerging amongst NRL fans about not allowing current NRL players to win representative honours if they have signed to play with another code next season, and even more, never allowing them back into the game. Personally, I think that is an extreme reaction. But in all these discussions abou chasing the dollar, be that inside or outside of the NRL, we are reminded of one thing over and over: the roots of League in the country are overwhelmingly working class, and it shows in the views that form on these sorts of subjects.
AndyRoo
Roar Guru
I'm probably more negative on this idea now. Others are saying it's win win but I see it now looking like lose lose for the AFL. I agree with Dogz that the AFL would be better off if after this initial VFL season he was allowed to go play french rugby and the experiment ends their. That way they get all the promotion but don't have to go through with the actual farce. If he fails I think it will damage recruitment amongst the islander community because K Hunt is not going to be potrayed in a great light (nor GC17 to an extent). His return to the NRL at the end of the 3 years (they will likely have upped their salary cap by then) will be treated with great fanfare (we have seen it all before with the rugby converts and it wasn't a great look for Rugby). It feels gimmicky and if I was a Gold coast AFL fan i would overlook it because I would just be excited to be getting a team but gimmicks like this are hardly the type of thing I would want to be associated with. if he's succesful...... well that just gives the NRL huge credibility and doesn't do much for the perceptions of the AFL.
Mister Football
Roar Guru
IN the AGE today, there's an article by Matty Lloyd, with almost the identical viewpoint and theme as expressed in this article: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/converts-taking-a-huge-punt-20100508-ukyy.html this follows on from similar observations from former team mate, James Hird, who played League in Canberra until the age of 14. "One of the biggest challenges however, will be a mental one, and that is how he copes making the transition from big fish in the Broncos team and the NRL to project player in the AFL. Once all the hype dies down, that's exactly what he's going to be - a project player. "
Redb
Roar Guru
There is a big difference with the Williams, Roberts-Thomsons and Jacks of the rugby L or U converts to AFL, they all had considerable time in development before making it to AFL level and even then contributing at AFL level at the standard required. Multiple years, not months. Now Hunt and Folau maybe more gifted athletes , but the sport memory stuff takes time. Hunt is definitely more likely than Folau. anyway its academic with Folau, won't happen.
AndyRoo
Roar Guru
The fact that he's not a great kick and can't read the game is a sign Hunt could make it. By make it I mean play some games of AFL football and be selected in the 22 on merit. After all Tom Williams has zero marketing worth but (probably thanks to unlimited interchange tilting the balance towards athletes) has played 40 or so games in the AFL and is likely to still be selected next week despite his deficiencies. The Bulldogs are a top 4 team so if Williams can play 40 games for them why couldn't Hunt play that many for an expansion team.
Crosscoder
Roar Guru
Make of this what you will: I will refer to Carl Jennings a renowned sport's trainer"During a game of rugby league players are required to perform multiple speed efforts that in most cases last for 6 seconds or less,making the body rely on its Anaerobic(without oxygen) Alactic(without lactate) energy systems.Therefore this required energy system must be trained to make the athlete sport specific speed,more efficient.it is also important to build a good Aerobic base to support the Anaerobic and Alactic system". Another on cardiovascular endurance in rugby. " Rugby is a sport where CV endurance is vital.No one wants a player that is good for 1 fast break,then needs a sub.You want somone that can reproduce throughout the match.Considering any rugby league forward can do over 20km in a game". Again from the AIS 'the game is also characterised by heavy body contact and tackling,with bruising and musculoskeletal injuries common.This combined with the FREQUENT high intensity efforts during matches would suggest those players involved for the whole 80 minutes are putting siignificant strain on their muscle fuel(glycogen) reserves". I can't see a comparison with a boxer,when in rl every part of the body(except the head and the neck) is exposed to contact on an ongoing basis for 80 minutes. What that means for Izzie whose involvement is far less than a forward or inside back or fullback for that matter,and how it translates to whether he could adapt to a new sport is subject to conjecture.I would suggest his fitness,evasive skills,abilty to absorb punishment ,strength,agility and speed are there.It is his lack of kicking skills,that should be a concern.
Mister Football
Roar Guru
By the way, absolutely everyone agrees he is a fantastic athlete - that's one reason why he is being targetted!! But question marks are emerging about one key attribute - no one should take that as a slur on him as an athlete and a great League player.
Mister Football
Roar Guru
I'm not an expert, but it could well be the difference between anaerobic and aerobic fitness. But just because you can box (which also requires a high degree of endurance), does not mean you can run a marathon. I'm not sure why, but people are really mixing up a lot of different concepts here.
Midfielder
Guest
Its all in court and community discussions... I went and had a look at the site when those opposed held a protest meeting... and spoke to some locals who made some very good points... They have a point in that it is being sunk to close to the beach ... can they just take it out a bit more... it is very reasonable thing to ask and makes sense... As it turns out the media even local ... tend to play the wild card and say they do not want it ... when in fact they do not want it were they plan to sink it... simply want it moved. Those opposed placed a buoy in the ocean were they plan to sink and it is way to close to the beach... moving it out another half KL makes a lot of sense... Very hard to see why the gov is being so dogmatic in placing it were they say they will...
Mister Football
Roar Guru
There's nothing you're saying that is going to the heart of the issue: lots of kilometres, and at a far, far higher average speed than any other football code (the latter aided by the larger ground and the greater openness). This isn't really about personal perceptions and "vibes", it's about the reality of the game: the amount of running, and the intensity required is not for everyone - it's not something you can just "pick up".
Crosscoder
Roar Guru
Apparently 40 minutes for a player with the constant physical buffeting,without being replaced is not endurance.At the same time be able to chase an opponent for some distance ,and bring him down in a tackle.Or be expected to continue to tackle with the likes of Hindmarsh ,Gallen,even wingers like Brett Morris.That is 40 minutes not 30,and involves SFA interchanging.RL players are within cooee of the action all the time,not tucked away at teh ear end of the field waiting for something to come his way. It depends on the type of endurance.The definition of endurance" the ability to cope with something painful or difficult for a long time".Anyone who says rl is not an endurance sport and/or the players are down on the endurance scale,either haven't played the game or are just plain kidding themselves.Running around a track for long periods is endurance,running and at the same time being hammered for long periods(40 minutes) is a tad more physically demanding endurance.
Kurt
Roar Pro
No worries Mid, I was making an oblique reference to the fact that compeition name 'AFL' is also used to more generally describe the code, which can lead to some confusion. However this is a practice the AFL seems set on encouraging to I can't really complain. How's the decision on sinking that old Frigate out your way going? Just got back from a couple of days diving in the Florida Keys, some amazing wreck diving there. Fortunately BP haven't managed to destry that part of the coast yet, although the oil slick is on its way which will be a tragedy for the whole area.
Midfielder
Guest
Kurt In the pre-season we look for games to prepare for the season ahead... we have in recent years tried to play another code sorta of fun game when you run a bit of Chrismas cheer off... when we played the rugby old boys ... we played touch, football and AFL ... they were so bad at AFL we won to easy ... so we challenged a just formed U 18 team AFL team who has a member who is the son of one of our players... Any how we beat them even tho I gave some players almost 40 years start... BUT being honest they were not that good (a tad to trusting, maybe respectful) an example I am about 5'4" or lower and the guy marking me near the goal was about 6'6" ... the coach was yelling at him to stay with me ... I said look you need to do what your coach wants and he is yelling at you to go and mark that other player so he is doubled marked... well he let me unmarked in front of goal ... I got passed the ball and kicked it in... After my third goal the 6'6" kid said no I think he wants me to mark you... sorta says what they were like ... But back to the main idea is the looser buys the beer... so no still not picked for an AFL side
Kurt
Roar Pro
Mid - congrats on playing three games of AFL - personally I always wanted to play Aussie Rules at the highest level but never made it beyond the lower reaches of the amateurs. But for you to have been picked up by an AFL club at your age is quite an achievement.
Midfielder
Guest
Very true ... however they may be slightly faster than me today (i.e. the professional sports folk) ... but if the contest is even then it is fun... and a reflection of the main game OK OK OK a tad slower... BTW we also drank the AFL U 18 off the park after the game.... given they had to pay which is the local rule ... if you loose you buy the beer ... maybe they held back a bit ... they have sent a challenge to us for next year ... we sent a challenge to the rugby old boys for next year ... so far in three games of AFL I have not had to buy a beer and have had plenty after the game...
Midfielder
Guest
We felt insulted it is so small no offence... it was a real come you dicks from the AFL blokes but old age and wisdom prevailed and we used a RL ball... besides we could all kick a RL ball and were unsure about the AFL ball
Karlos
Guest
I would say Izzy is not a good example of an endurance Rugby League player, for sure. But I do not buy the endurance myth put forward in a game where 260 interchanges a game seems to be the norm. Endurance is about exerting oneself over a long period of time. Cliffy Youg had endurance when he ran from Sydney to Melbourne in gumboots with no specialist training. I can run 12 km in 3 hours with two 5 minute plus breaks and a half hour break plus massages and all the other stops they have and I am 46. Playing z grade rugby league our warmup before training proper was 3.2km in 10 minutes and it got a lot harder from there. If you couldnt get under the time you got extra sprints and carrys and that meant most front rowers. Try Aussie Rules blokes out on carrying another player up and down the field and they are hopeless compared to Rugby League guys. Try them on the tackling bag or boxing mits and again they are hopeless. Yes, the average AFL player has endurance for running about, but the average Rugby League player will exert far more energy in an 80 minute game that lasts 1 and a half hours without the constant resting AFL players have in thier 80minute game that last 3 hours. It used to be 12 interchanges in RL and that made me mad because it took away the endurance factor in Rugby League. Before that it was that you had to have played half a game of reserve grade to qualify for firsts. The balance in AFL interchanges needs to come right back before I can take the game half seriously.
Michael C
Roar Guru
yeah, the key with Australian Football is the work rate required generally just to get a kick. Although if in the right place at the right time there can be some cheapies got down back.....sometimes......but, Folau would have to discover the ability to run 80 metres.......just to get in a position to get the ball, let alone, that having the ball in hand....he can run....and then......bounce? kick?.....it's not like RL/RU where you run with no 'handicap' and don't need to 'steady' to dispose of the ball but simply place the ball across a line (for all that's great about RL......the end 'action' of a 'run' is vastly less taxing or technical than in Aust Footy).
Karlos
Guest
What other word do you have to describe the abillity to endure at lot of physical exertion for two 40 minute periods? Do you think running is the only form of endurance?