On one end of the spectrum of sporting punditry, there’s arguing over whether a pass was forward or not, whether Nathan Brown was right with that x-rated serve he gave Wayne Bennett, whether Sam Tomkins is a good signing for Catalans.
And right at the other end of the spectrum is the sort of punditry I find far more engaging, the sort peddled by sports historian Tony Collins.
Tony Collins ponders talking points that play out over decades, turning points that changed the fortunes of entire sports and societies, and has just started a fantastic new podcast called Rugby Reloaded.
One episode in particular should be required listening for NRL chief executives as they attend today’s meeting on the Gold Coast which will discuss the June 23 Denver Test.
In Rugby’s Own Goal, Tony explains that in the 1870s and 1880s, rugby (there was only one type until 1895) was much bigger than soccer (or football or whatever you want to call it).
“By the time the 1874-75 season kicked off, it had 113 clubs under the rugby banner,” Collins says.
“The FA, despite being formed seven years earlier, had only 78.”
But in 1871, the Football Association launched the FA Cup. “Over the next decade, the FA Cup became the catalyst for soccer to expand across the country. (And) for working class teams to play against the elite of British society.
“Such a meeting was impossible in any other sphere of British life and it gave soccer a deeper meaning that resonated far beyond a simple contest for a sporting trophy.”
The country became entranced by mining towns playing Etonians. The Calcutta rugby club in 1878 promptly donated a trophy to the RFU intended to be the 15-man game’s answer to the FA Cup.
The denizens of Twickenham were having none of it. Commoners weren’t to mix with gentlemen. They hated the idea of mass spectator sport, thinking it crass and uncouth.
The Calcutta Cup ended up being awarded to the winner of the England-Scotland game instead.
Collins quotes RFU secretary Rowland Hill as saying: “It is said that (these competitions) aid materially in increasing an interest in the game. Rugby football requires no such unhealthy stimulants.”
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And so soccer grew exponentially and Britain’s cultural influence over its empire aided that growth overseas, while rugby was left to forever be second, third, fourth or 57th fiddle.
The Great Schism of 1895 is easier to understand in light of this, isn’t it? Working men were actively discouraged from being involved.
But the NRL and its clubs should carefully consider this story today as they decide how obstructionist they are going to be about the match at Sports Authority Stadium at Mile High.
They have no games that weekend. It’s costing them nothing. An NFL team is helping them sell their game as the rugby – something most foreign sports would kill for.
In 2015 Leicester Tigers were to play an American selection in Philadelphia. Tickets were sold, the local media was on board – and USA Rugby had the match banned by World Rugby because it didn’t like the promoters.
When two English teams finally made it to Philly the next year, the media and fans refused to be dudded twice and only 6000 showed up.
Do the men and women meeting in an air conditioned room on the Goldy today want to take a place in the history of sporting bungles, right alongside a bunch of stuff-shirted Victorian snobs?
Maddi Davis
Roar Rookie
Is that the Denver decision where we decided to bring out another petition because we weren't getting our own way? Why cant other sports grow naturally but Rugby League tries to grow with petitions?
Crosscoder
Roar Guru
Maddi another alias LOL World Cup nothing to do with thread.It's about Denver decision.
Rob9
Guest
Of course there is. But be realistic about what’s achievable. Elevating the code above one that’s so deeply engrained within the culture of the PI’s is not.
The Barry
Roar Guru
Knocking off union might be an overstatement but there’s a definite opportunity to build on the momentum of last years World Cup.
Rob9
Guest
‘a great chance to knock off Union in the Pacific at the moment’ ??? Yea file that one next to baseball ‘knocking off’ cricket in India...
Cathar Treize
Roar Guru
LOL to those who still believes union was amateur back in the day. This doco on Welsh code breakers AGAIN points out that, in this instance, Welsh union players received match fees playing for their union clubs but it was the 'sign on' fee from rugby league clubs that were the real inducements. It was like getting their union club fees for 2-3 seasons all at once! Shamateurism reigned supreme. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzsiooUfXKk
godragonsgo
Guest
Agreed. As I said elsewhere if this game was in Toronto backing up what the Wolfpack has done I would have a different opinion. But why Denver? Also we have a great chance to really knock off Union in the Pacific at the moment. America will NEVER be a Rugby League loving nation but the Pacific Islands is a real chance. The RLIF should be working towards test matches in Fiji, Tonga and the Cook Islands where we can build the game.
godragonsgo
Guest
Also..................normally I side with Mr Mascord as I find his thinking very sensible. But I am not so sold on this. What is the plan. The FA Cup had a plan. It would happen year on year and let everyone be able to compete and be inclusive. So far all I am hearing is this is a one off test. Why did they schedule it for Denver? What are the long term benefits? So far all I see is it will be one game and then all will be forgotten. It is an awful big impact for the NRL clubs for a game that seems on to be relatively meaningless. Now if this test was say in Toronto to back up the Wolfpacks efforts I would have a different opinion.
Mushi
Guest
Do we really think it was that one convenient decision? It's like when at a BBQ people try to tell me the GFC happened because of some dodgy mortgages We like to make really complex results easy but they aren't
Perry Bridge
Guest
#Peter Phelps ??Really?? So many people I know have had a year or 2 or 3 travelling and working overseas. There are generally two types of such people - those who upon doing it can't wait to get back home and those who may never return to Australia. Our international awareness I would speculate as being quite high - however - we for many years had too little regional awareness and were too Euro-centric.
Crosscoder
Roar Guru
The amateur ethos remained ATT, however that didn't prevent boot money or under them table payments being made to some players.The French had no problems spending loot when it suited, and continued to do so well into the 20th Century. The word shamateurism wasn't a figment of someones imagination. Yet they soon jumped (as a matter of necessity naturally))when Rupert flashed his money around in 1995.Dragged themselves into the 20th Century finally.It was finally OK to play for pay. If the NRL players are well insured ,and compensated financially,and zero health risk from altitude (and this can be shown by the RFL and NZRL and the medical profession) , then as we have SOO being played that same weekend,IMO Denver should go ahead. The code has always been a one step forward two steps back organisation, in promoting itself overseas.Maybe just maybe this might be the start of something worthwhile.
Bargeall
Guest
Have Storm played 2 away games on neutral territory against Wests who have sacrificed 2 home games for the money?? Do other teams have this advantage,. Steve is rewriting history of course, the RU in England didn't want money involved and wanted to keep it an amateur sport which didn't suit the miners up north who wanted to be compensated for time lost from work which the South saw as a slipper slope to professionalism. The amateur ethos reigned supreme at the time (there were amateur and pro cricketers entering from different gates for the MCC til 1920?) But Mascord has to spin it the RL way of course though he is better than he used to be.
Tim Gore
Expert
If you stop players getting $30,000 a game for SOO they won’t sign at your club. Same can’t be said for one off, demonstration games on the other side of the planet. If my club is to release four internationals for that game there will have to be some insurance. Or they are sure to have niggling injuries to recover from.
bbt
Guest
My vote is they will stuff it up!!!
Rory Mc
Guest
Steve So what do you think of the snobby game of rugby (union) organising a World Cup Sevens tournament - mens teams from 24 countries and womens teams from 16 countries - at the AT&T baseball field in San Francisco in July this year? Methinks you and Tony Collins still believe rugby (union) hasn't progressed since 1895.
kk
Guest
Nothing like a burst of common sense to straighten the attack. The often quoted late Colin Hayes nailed it with "the future belongs to those who prepare for it"
Big Daddy
Guest
Steve, As an avid rugby league supporter I am not against in principle but a supporter of a team that may not make the eight because on international match. As a sports fan we don't mind having big EPL teams here and if an nfl match were to come here I would jump at the chance. When soccer internationals are held throughout Europe the top divisions have a week off. If this international were held off season so it doesn't affect the local competition to me would be the ideal scenario. If we want to start comparing ourselves to other codes maybe we should start to think like other codes. We are the leading country in NRL so really everything revolves around us. The decision for super league to go onto a parallel comp with us is the thing that killed international rugby league. Before that we had great kangaroos and great Britain tours.
Greg
Guest
Which other clubs have refused to travel to the UK? There is a stat that says that no team who has travelled to the UK in the pre season has won the premiership that year which I think the Storm have latched on to. Last year, as runners up the previous year and the last year of the Big 3 being together you could excuse them for not wanting to go and to focus on winning the comp. Mission accomplished, they did it, but to then refuse again this year for the second year in a row is inexcusable and the NRL should have stepped in.
The Barry
Roar Guru
Some very grandiose language used to discuss this game. The future of league, rugby league’s FA Cup, promoting the international game, developing new markets. But there’s not one thing out there that suggests that this part of a broader strategy to build and promote the game overseas. I know I’ll get the “you’ve got to start somewhere” but the place you start is with a plan or strategy. I haven’t seen anything from the RLIF or anyone else officially involved that this game is any more than a promoter taking an opportunity to make money off the back of league with an inconveniently timed one off game. If that’s the RLIFs growth strategy they’ve got bigger problems than getting the NRL clubs on board. I’d love nothing more than for this game to be a rip roaring success and lead to a professional US comp and international team and everything else’s that goes with it. But that’s just not going to happen off the back of a one off game and there’s no evidence of a broader strategy. This was done in 1987 and everyone was saying exactly the same things about new markets and overseas opportunities, etc.
Kurt S
Roar Pro
An interesting perspective, Steve. It seems there are very key points both local national and global that need to be addressed if League is to move into new territories. First the needs to be agreement that new territories is what the key stakeholders, the clubs and NRL admin want. If they can't get consensus on that point, the rest of the discussions are moot.