Brisbane show they are miles ahead of Carlton

Lobbe I think was only ever depth cover - I must admit, I was terrified when I heard the Lions talking about getting him. Please god no Mullett is a very ordinary player relative to others out there, don't know much about Shaw, and everyone from Port Adelaide reckons O'Shea is one of the worst players they've ever had and were glad to be rid of him. I must agree that those 4 signings in particular were truly baffling. Or maybe it's just indicative of how much the bottom drops out of the talent pool once you get past the top 250 players in the league

Carlton did bring in 4 mature aged players last off season in Lobbe, Shaw, O'Shea and Mullett. It just so happens they've been poor this season. They also brought in Kennedy and Lang thinking they would add to our midfield, both have had injury problems and I think Kennedy will prove a valuable aquisition in the long term, I'm undecided on Lang. Carlton couldn't help the injuries to Lang and Kennedy, but their selection of mature aged players was poor, some might even say a mistake Macca.

Yep, Carlton's injuries are very relevant and have a compound effect. They don't need that.

Col, Caroline Wilson's modus operandi is to take indiscriminate pot-shots at everyone. She's good for the industry I suppose - given her willingness to criticise where others might not - but she's an extremely negative journalist.

Without looking it up Dougie I would suggest the dogs had more players at the average age whereas the blues have a massive amount under 21 and not much until around 28 - that is a big difference. Also the Lions this year have had about 3 or 4 players on their injury list all year, with most of them not in their best 22 - the blues had 15 on the list this week and have been around the 13 mark most of the year with players like Docherty & Murphy missing large chunks. And the article may be warranted but it is a terrible effort comparing SPS to Witherden when they are different sizes and play different roles and criticising 20 year old Weitering for not being as developed and the 22 year old Gardiner is just poor work.

I read the Doggies had the youngest side and least experienced side this year for the first 9 rounds (not sure about the more recent rounds). Which does make me question the progress of some other sides, including Carlton, given that the Doggies have been more competitive and look more likely to improve rapidly in the short term. Brisbane have made big strides forward this year, evidenced by their percentage so it looks like Carlton are being left behind again. The article is therefore warranted.

But Peter we are not disagreeing about the path forward. You think the blues need more mature bodies, guess what so do the blues. The only difference is you wanted the blues to already have taken them but the blues have always planned to take them from the 2018 trade period onwards. The only way we can fix what you see as a mistake is to continue on the path we have already embarked on. You want the blues to "rebuild on the fly" which is exactly what the intend to do (if I interpret you statement correctly) now that they have established a solid base of high quality young players they acquired through both the draft and trade. And as I said elsewhere - the "most" who now think they blues have got it wrong were calling for the blues to do exactly what they have done.

... and the day he arrived the club's 2 big name signings quit.

We will just have to agree to disagree Macca on this. FWIW my comments are what IMO Carlton need to do to get back to their rightful place as a Melbourne powerhouse. How good would it be to have the Pies, Tigers and Blues all smashing into each other in the finals! Your opinion is the club must stay the course they set three years ago. Most other opinions are that they have got it wrong and I guess we won't ultimately know until the year 2020 when you predict you will be playing in the eight. As I have said before I do not post to rub Carlton in the dirt, I post as an observer who genuinely believes if you admit your mistakes, take an aggressive strategy this off season with both coaching and recruiting staff and players, you can aim for an 8-10th place not in 2020, 2021 or as Pagan says in 2024, you can challenge in 2019.

And the magic formula to get from the blues position to a position where the can "rebuild on the fly" is what Geelong and Hawthorn did, multiple draft picks in multiple drafts in a short period, exactly what the blues have done.

Pete - so after finishing bottom in 2015 the blues should have "rebuilt on the fly". It simply doesn't work like that. And Collingwood's rebuild on the fly worked even though they haven't played finals in 4 years but GWS are struggling despite playing in prelim finals the last two year? Get of the grass Pete. The blues don't need to change the blue print because their blue print addresses the things you think are wrong - they are targeting mature players this trade period - it is what the planned all along.

Macca, could it just be possible that the Blues have gone all out start from scratch (mostly very young and a large number of GWS rejects) when the magic formula has changed to rebuilding on the fly? Col has suggested the club will go hard for free agency in this upcoming off season. The question is why now? Why not last year? GWS and The Suns have shown that despite massive concessions to get them going, they are still struggling. Granted, GWS got close and may not be that far away now but they had more concessions than the Blues have had, more goes at getting the right picks. As for the Suns, well they are no closer to a flag than when they began. As I have said Macca, the Blues are the sleeping giant just like the Tigers were but enough of the 5 year rebuild talk. Pagan thinks you are 5-6 years away still! IMO the Blues need to revisit their blueprint they set three years back and if necessary, admit their mistakes and move on to a new blueprint. In the meantime, if (I hate to say it and hope he is locked down with a contract at the pies) recruiting guns Derek Hine (pies) and Graham Wright (hawks) and coaching wise Horse or Clarko were even a sniff of being available, the Blues board should be all out trying to secure their services.

Those recruiting errors are why we changed the Prsedient, CEO, Coach and recruitment staff in 2015 Pete. We can't change what happened but we have changed what we are doing. Of those players you list that we gave away only Touhy was under this administration and we got a good deal for him that enable pe us to get Marchbank and Pickett. Short term pain for long term gain.

Macca, I wrote this below in the latest Carlton article today quoting Pagan. I think it is relevant here. At some stage someone needs to ask why players become better when they leave the Blues. I understand most of this was prior to Bolton, but nevertheless it tells a tale below and shows your draft picks have been pretty poor and your retention of good players has also lacked. Those experienced players below could now be not only mentoring your kids but helping you challenge for finals now, not in 2020. (possibly) 2005 National draft: Carlton pick 1 – Marc Murphy Carlton pick 4 – Josh Kennedy (traded to West Coast in the Judd deal) – 207 games, 519 goals Collingwood: pick 2 – Dale Thomas Collingwood pick 5 – Scott Pendlebury 2006 National draft Carlton pick 1 – Bryce Gibbs Carlton pick 17 – Shaun Hampson (traded to Richmond 2013) 98 games averaging 20 hitouts and 8 disposals. Carlton pick 19 – Shaun Grigg (traded to Richmond in 2010) averaged 21.4 possessions over 200 games) Collingwood pick 8 – Ben Reid Collingwood pick 10- Nathan Brown (traded on to St Kilda end of 2016) Collingwood pick 28 – Chris Dawes Tyson Goldsack also taken at pick 63 2007 National draft Carlton pick 1 – Matthew Kreuzer 2008 National draft Carlton pick 6 – Chris Yarran (traded to Richmond 2015) Carlton pick 40 – Mitch Robinson (delisted by Blues end 2014, Brisbane B and F winner 2015) Collingwood pick 11 – Steele Sidebottom Collingwood pick 29 – Dayne Beams Collingwood pick 73 – Leigh Brown 2009 National draft Carlton pick 12 – Kane Lucas (42 games) Carlton pick 72 (promoted rookie) Sam Jacobs (13 games for Carlton traded to Crows end 2010) Collingwood pick 30 – Luke Ball Collingwood pick 62 – Ben Sinclair Collingwood pick 75 – Josh Thomas 2010 National draft Carlton pick 18 – Matthew Watson (23 games delisted end 2015) Carlton pick 85 – Jeff Garlett Collingwood pick 45 – Alex Fasolo Collingwood pick 76 – Paul Seedsman Collingwood pick 91 – Jarryd Blair That shows both pretty average recruiting by the Blues (which to be fair can be hot and miss think Melbourne) but more tellingly the ones they gave away include: Josh Kennedy Sam Jacobs Shaun Grigg Mitch Robinson and of course Eddie Betts end 2013, Jarryd Waite end 2014 and Zac Tuohy end 2016. Drafting can be hit and miss but if those players above were still in the Navy Blue alongside Cripps, Curnow and Docherty, the Blues would have been playing finals not being spoken about as priority pick welfare.

Peter - the club hasn't got it wrong, they just haven't finished. I do love the way whatever the blues do they got it wrong; In 2015 everyone was saying the blues don't do the draft and they got in trouble trying to take short cuts but when they took 4 first round picks in the draft (which they acquired by trading players no one thought were worth a cracker) they got it wrong (Ryan gave them a 3 out of 10) In 2016 everyone got stuck into the blues because they should have traded Gibbs because he wasn't going to be there when the won a premiership and they need to harder at the draft. Also in 2016 they were criticised for recruiting to many "rejects' (Plowman, Kerridge, Wright etc) and Ryan wrote an article criticising the blues for not playing their new recruits enough (despite only Essendon playing them more). 2017 was more of the same too many rejects, need to go harder at the draft and need to play more kids, need to trade away an established star. Now in 2018 having done everything the critics said they should for 3 years, gone hard at the draft , having traded Gibbs away for draft picks and then the kids (although they are still getting flack for not playing McKay) suddenly we have gone too far, we are playing the kids too much and we needed to have got more "rejects" and a mature "star" (like say Gibbs) to help shield these young kids.

Pete - you keep saying "rebuilt on the fly" but it has been a 6-7 year journey and I think you will still end up lower than you began. As for the injury riddle the Pies have the 4th oldest list in the comp and the 3rd most experienced - it is why I didn't rate their list, the age profile needs to have them being a contender now - that holds them in greater stead to hold up against injuries.

Tim Lane hasn't got it wrong yet Pete, he was talking longer term than you are giving him credit for. The I think might end up a bit like Essendon constantly mid table. I think the blues can make a massive jump in the near future.

gratuitous Carlton bashing There may be a part of the multiverse where bashing Carlton can be gratuitous, but not in this one.

And the pies will still be 10 wins ahead of the Blues with a similar injury list. For a couple of lists you considered close is a very big discrepency....

She hates North too. She never forgave us for not wanting to relocate to the Gold Coast. She has a phobia for clubs that are located to the north of Victoria Street.