AFL must give Blues priority pick: Denis Pagan

Two things. Firstly the AFL should not listen to a club when deciding whether they need a priority pick or not. It should really be a decision made by the AFL commission on advice from the AFL and the club should be told that they have been given one. Clubs shouldn't be allowed to lobby for it and in the same way shouldn't be allowed to block it. Secondly, I don't think Carlton need a priority pick or deserve one either. Carlton will survive and eventually right their ship because of their supporter base. I also think that there maybe some problems with elitism at their club, which is not just limited to a few players, but instead is embedded in their hierarchy. Elitism is particularly destructive to on field performance and an additional draft pick won't help improve on field performance in the face of a lack of action to correct this elitism.

Anyone who thinks Betts or Robinson would have become the players they became whilst still at Carlton is kidding themselves

I reckon most dyed in the wool blue baggers would be aghast at, & even further humiliated by a charitable gesture from the AFL. Maybe I’m reading it wrong. Macca & Col could shed some light on this.

I don't really see what use a priority pick is going to be to them. Let's assume it's end of first round, so 19, probably ends up being early-20's by the time free agent compensation picks, academy / father-son bids etc are taken into account. How many early picks (ie top 20 or even top 10) have Carlton had over the past few years? And yet they find themselves in this predicament. This suggests that when it comes to using those picks, they're either drafting / trading for the wrong players, or they're getting the right players and failing to develop them properly. Either way, what's the point of giving them yet another early draft pick when most of the evidence before us suggests they'll just waste it anyway? If they need some help, it should probably be in the form of getting in somebody who is good at identifying and developing talent, not just throwing another draft pick at them.

Why not Macca? You got Cripps for pick 13 in the 2013 AFL draft, it wasn't an on traded pick? You got Charlie Curnow from pick 12 traded to you by the Western Bulldogs in a pick exchange and then Docherty you got for pick 33 to the Lions. How would any of that be compromised if you had also kept those players Macca?

A priority pick should not be given, Carlton don't deserve a helping hand to trade for an established big name which is where I see an extra first rounder being used.

No chance. They just aren't in a position to be attractive to gun players looking to win a flag. They need to bring in a McVeigh or a Mundy and focus on 2019.

Of course if we had those players we probably wouldn't have Cripps or Curnow and possibly not Docherty as we wouldn't have had the same draft picks. But pretty much every thing you raise above happened pre-2015 when we had a different President, CEO, Coach and recruiting manager - we can't change what happened but we have changed what we are doing.

Unlike every other club who ends up in the blues position who were completely blameless.

Why so they can screw up yet another good young players career ?

Ah why can't everyone just enjoy Carlton having a bad run? This historical overdog is due for long spell in the shadows.

Mediocrity, mismanagement and a poor recruiting history should not be rewarded with additional first round picks. They should go the other way and not give them anything (eg no Friday nights!) until they sort themselves out to some extent.

Andyincanberra makes a point comparing the Pies and Blues recruiting from 2006 onwards, let's take a look. 2005 National draft: Carlton pick 1 – Marc Murphy Carlton pick 4 – Josh Kennedy (traded to West Coast in the Judd deal) – 207 games, 519 goals Collingwood: pick 2 – Dale Thomas Collingwood pick 5 – Scott Pendlebury 2006 National draft Carlton pick 1 – Bryce Gibbs Carlton pick 17 – Shaun Hampson (traded to Richmond 2013) 98 games averaging 20 hitouts and 8 disposals. Carlton pick 19 – Shaun Grigg (traded to Richmond in 2010) averaged 21.4 possessions over 200 games) Collingwood pick 8 – Ben Reid Collingwood pick 10- Nathan Brown (traded on to St Kilda end of 2016) Collingwood pick 28 – Chris Dawes Tyson Goldsack also taken at pick 63 2007 National draft Carlton pick 1 – Matthew Kreuzer 2008 National draft Carlton pick 6 – Chris Yarran (traded to Richmond 2015) Carlton pick 40 – Mitch Robinson (delisted by Blues end 2014, Brisbane B and F winner 2015) Collingwood pick 11 – Steele Sidebottom Collingwood pick 29 – Dayne Beams Collingwood pick 73 – Leigh Brown 2009 National draft Carlton pick 12 – Kane Lucas (42 games) Carlton pick 72 (promoted rookie) Sam Jacobs (13 games for Carlton traded to Crows end 2010) Collingwood pick 30 – Luke Ball Collingwood pick 62 – Ben Sinclair Collingwood pick 75 – Josh Thomas 2010 National draft Carlton pick 18 – Matthew Watson (23 games delisted end 2015) Carlton pick 85 – Jeff Garlett Collingwood pick 45 – Alex Fasolo Collingwood pick 76 – Paul Seedsman Collingwood pick 91 – Jarryd Blair That shows both pretty average recruiting by the Blues (which to be fair can be hot and miss think Melbourne) but more tellingly the ones they gave away include: Josh Kennedy Sam Jacobs Shaun Grigg Mitch Robinson and of course Eddie Betts end 2013, Jarryd Waite end 2014 and Zac Tuohy end 2016. Drafting can be hit and miss but if those players above were still in the Navy Blue alongside Cripps, Curnow and Docherty, the Blues would have been playing finals not being spoken about as priority pick welfare.

Looking at the picks worth noting. 2005 National draft: Carlton pick 1 - Marc Murphy Carlton pick 4 - Josh Kennedy (traded to West Coast in the Judd deal) - 207 games, 519 goals Collingwood: pick 2 - Dale Thomas Collingwood pick 5 - Scott Pendlebury 2006 National draft Carlton pick 1 - Bryce Gibbs Carlton pick 17 - Shaun Hampson (traded to Richmond 2013) 98 games averaging 20 hitouts and 8 disposals. Carlton pick 19 - Shaun Grigg (traded to Richmond in 2010) averaged 21.4 possessions over 200 games) Collingwood pick 8 - Ben Reid Collingwood pick 10- Nathan Brown (traded on to St Kilda end of 2016) Collingwood pick 28 - Chris Dawes Tyson Goldsack also taken at pick 63 2007 National draft Carlton pick 1 - Matthew Kreuzer 2008 National draft Carlton pick 6 - Chris Yarran (traded to Richmond 2015) Carlton pick 40 - Mitch Robinson (delisted by Blues end 2014, Brisbane B and F winner 2015) Collingwood pick 11 - Steele Sidebottom Collingwood pick 29 - Dayne Beams Collingwood pick 73 - Leigh Brown 2009 National draft Carlton pick 12 - Kane Lucas (42 games) Carlton pick 72 (promoted rookie) Sam Jacobs (13 games for Carlton traded to Crows end 2010) Collingwood pick 30 - Luke Ball Collingwood pick 62 - Ben Sinclair Collingwood pick 75 - Josh Thomas 2010 National draft Carlton pick 18 - Matthew Watson (23 games delisted end 2015) Carlton pick 85 - Jeff Garlett Collingwood pick 45 - Alex Fasolo Collingwood pick 76 - Paul Seedsman Collingwood pick 91 - Jarryd Blair That shows both pretty average recruiting by the Blues (which to be fair can be hot and miss think Melbourne) but more tellingly the ones they gave away include: Josh Kennedy Sam Jacobs Shaun Grigg Mitch Robinson and of course Eddie Betts end 2013, Jarryd Waite end 2014 and Zac Tuohy end 2016. Drafting can be hit and miss but if those players above were still in the Navy Blue alongside Cripps, Curnow and Docherty, the Blues would have been playing finals not being spoken about as priority pick welfare.

Sorry, 1993

I thought the only side that won a flag with a side that breached the cap was Essendon in 1993

Dougie, I know you like to bang on about the 1995 premiership being tarnished but the breaches related to the period between 1998 and 2001. There were no breaches during the 1995 season.

Yes, the Pies would have not deserved a priority pick last year. Carlton average ladder position past 4 years is 15.2 Brisbane: 16.7 Pies: 12 Saints: 13 Gold Coast: 15 If the average was set at 14 or worse for 4 years its hard to argue that The Suns, Blues and Lions don't need help.

Give 'em 20.

Well Sloane has just signed with the Crows for 5 years, there's another target off the table. Gaff next? Shiel?