Roll the dice on Larkham for the 2019 World Cup

Hi Rhys - interesting alternative take on Larkham. While I am not a great fan of the current set up (especially annoying is the thought that Australian thinking / depth of analysis / innovation appears one of our weak points) I think it best to stay with the status quo until after the RWC 2019. Not a fan of a lot of his selections and policies, but one thing I do like about Cheika is his determination to stick at it. It takes guts to have to front up when you are playing a team that on their good days seems about 20 points ahead of the pack. Hopefully a few wins against the other teams can generate a bit of confidence and momentum, and next year with a RWC you often don't have to face the best until last.

Good comment, Sage.

Thanks Sage. For me the major consideration with Bernie is that he would only be being given a shot until the Workd Cup, to see if he can do something with the team. It isn’t a long term commitment and he couldn’t do any worse than Cheika, so it isn’t likely to damage Rugby any further.

Nick and on with Moaman's comment; "who is running the dressing room, the players or the Coach". Being happy may well be because of Cheika's flawed selections!

I've had enough too Rhys. I've been a supporter of his all along but to me we've reached that point. It's easy to get caught up in 2 poor Bled losses and kneejerk from that but for me now, it's just finally accepting what I've been trying to look past for some time. I, like you, was screaming at the screen recently for him to go to his bench with Hooper flagging so badly & that's just one of so many other examples. It's not just an occasional fault of his and combined with his selections, his coaching box manner and his relationships with players like Fardy, Higs, Mcmahon and others who have left - not to mention Quade and I know how much you rate him....... But change to what? I like Bernie too as most Aussies do and would love him to do well but that doesn't make him a great coach. Not at this stage anyway. I do want change but I'm worried about jumping into the fire and I don't know how much more Aus Rugby can cope with before becoming totally irrelevant on the Aus sporting map. I suppose I just need to get my head around it a bit more. I actually wouldn't be disappointed to see him replace Chieka as I'm so over him but that isn't the basis of coach selection for the future.

I guess we will. I like the guy. I would just like him to accept some help for him to realise ‘our’ goal.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I would add that I have hoped that Michael Cheika would turn the corner and succeed for a long time, because he did well up until the World Cup and he seems like a good guy. Unfortunately though sometimes a person is just doesn't have what it takes.

Some very fair points. I’m with you that Cheika needs help with selections and tactics. I’m differing on his inability to be flexible on fixing those issues. However I’d rather a coach with the experience of beating the All Blacks twice, than one who has not. Build on what we have.

Yup. Cheika has never faced a challenge like Larkham did at the Brumbies while he was coaching the Tahs or Australia, we have had decent enough stocks at a national level in most positions.

Thanks Fionn :-)

"I’m sorry if I’ve upset you that I don’t support Bernie as being the answer to our woes. I just think it is a rubbish call." I'm not upset, you are entitled to your opinion. I just think that you and many others just have your heads in the sand about Cheika. You see how bolshie he is in the box and with the media, can you seriously see him working well with an independent selector telling him what to do? Seriously? I strongly suspect the ensuing fights would take up more time than they are worth and would ruin team moral. That is a pipe dream Mate. And it isn't even just selections that he gets wrong, as I have written in a previous article, he carries on like a pork chop so much during the game that he can't even use his bench properly. https://www.theroar.com.au/2018/07/03/decisions-michael-chieka-must-make-wallabies-succeed/ His latest effort was in Bledisloe 1 when Michael Hooper was clearly stuffed and missing tackles by the 60th minute, but he failed to bring on Pete Samu until after the 70th (I was screaming at the TV, he evidently didn't hear me). He constantly mucks up patently obvious decisions like that on a regular basis and it costs the Wallabies games. And what sort of coach plays the All Blacks by leaving his best lineout caller (Simmons) on the bench, then expects a relatively inexperienced caller (Coleman) to work with a hooker who has just flown in from Europe (TPN), and who can be a bit of a wobbly thrower at the best of times? And while his team played two opensides in the back row. The Wallabies gave up 7 from 12 lineouts from that complete cluster, seriously, how can anybody consider that a coach who pulls that sort of rubbish is able to redeem himself? And yes, the Golden Wallabies were a great team and helped make Larkham great, but today's Wallabies are also damn good players. They deserve a coach who can give them a shot. Are they going to win five Bledisloes in a row and a World Cup? Not likely, but they are certainly better than the 25 plus point humiliations that they have currently just suffered. The fact that they can beat the All Blacks on those occasions when their coach bumbles his way into a winning combination for one game, but them bumbles his way out again, is ample proof that they are better than this. The Wallabies deserve a bit of hope and the Aussie rugby public deserve a bit of hope. Cheika can't give us that, because whatever his previous achievements he has been a proven failure since England wiped the Wallabies three-zip in 2016. I'll take an unproven coach over a proven failure that any day of the week.

Interesting suggestion, Rhys. I agree with you that it would be more likely to yield a Wallaby victory :)

Hi Moa, Fair question. Answer, I had the pleasure of being at a Wallaby training recently and they appeared united and happy as a group which is consistent with what you hear out-and-about.

In reality, the team's decline in performance is more likely to be attributed to the loss of so many of his top players. White, Mogg, Toomua, Tomane, Mowen, Pocock, Lealiifano, etc, etc. The list goes on.

Nick, You say "he still has the dressing room" could that be because he keeps picking the same core group of senior players come what may? Arguably they have the dressing room themselves. I am only throwing that out there as something to think about.

Now there’s a thing. I think banks is just great and could be the larkham to five eight type. Nothing to lose with those three selections. Let’s face we can’t get much worse.

Oh Ryhs, Really! Did you know that when Rod Macqueen took over as Wallabies Coach we lost to Argentina on the road. My information is that he wanted to walk away from it, but senior players convinced him to stay on. Furthermore the ARU as it was then known sent in some support. Now we can mythologise how good the Wallabies were, and that they had this amazing fly half in Stephen Larkham. Well yes he was, but he had an amazing team around him. But it was Stirling Mortlock who kicked us a goal from the sidelines to with us a tri nations, Justin Harrison stole a ball at 2 to stop a probable Lions try scoring opportunity, John Eales kicked us to a Bledisloe after Mark Connors stole a lineout and Kefu weaving and barged us to another. Let’s get them to coach! Of course not. Because great players who won the moments don’t always make great coaches. Now I’m happy to point out Cheika’s shortcomings, I’m not a sycophant. But he is the only current international coach who has beaten Hansen’s All Blacks twice. He got us out of the pool of death and with luck into a RWC final. This built on two provincial titles against Larkam’s record which is....no titles. One thing I’ll give Cheika is that he still has the dressing room and that counts. Deans and McKenzie lost it, he rebuilt it. So the platform is there. His desire to fight is there. What he lacks is finesse in his tactics and selection. Why not get a selector in to compliment Cheika’s strengthens instead of tearing him down and replacing him with an unproven coach. When Greg Smith tried Larkham at 10 he knew if it didn’t work out there would be other options. We don’t have other options Rhys if we sack Cheika. Just bad decisions. For me this is akin to 89, some senior players are not cutting the mustard and need to be chopped. They way we play the game needs review and how we select also. I’m sorry if I’ve upset you that I don’t support Bernie as being the answer to our woes. I just think it is a rubbish call.

Rhys, you expect posters to offer alternative solutions and yet RA cannot even get their first decision correct. A review of Cheika's international record would have shown one of not "long-term achievement. He does okay for 2 to 3 years and then is stumped. Stumped because his Rugby Smarts and tactical nous is very, very questionable. In the short-term, it might be better to look at Knuckles, Dwyer, even Alan Jones for the period up to the RWC only. They have had far greater success than Cheika. The decision on a replacement is a difficult one. My concern is after 2019 RWC. Wh in their right mind would want to coach the Wallabies with the totally dysfunctional state of Rugby in Australia with RA, State Admin bias and argument, SR admins to damn stupid to get out of their own way, and the elephant in the room that has been around in Rugby Australia for a long time - "Player Power". This latter point is getting fully realised by a number of overseas coaches and a real "damage" to Rugby in this country. The answer I am stuf….. if I know.

On current performances Rhys, we are not likely to get out of the Pool.

"I’ve read your posts and articles and I know you’re more intelligent than that. You’re comparing ‘apples & oranges’ as they say." Nope, the situation for Larkham now and in 1998 is exactly the same. Back then he was unproven as a player and somebody who looked deeper took a chance on him. It won us a World Cup. Same goes for now, he is unproven as an international coach, but if you look at his Brumbies record there are signs that he could do good things with the Wallabies are. The reality is that all they are good enough that if they get coach who coaches rugby normally, not this hybrid rugby league rubbish where every position is "just a number on his back", they have the talent to be a force to be reckoned with. As Cheika likes say, stats don't tell us everything, choosing Larkham would be a matter of judgement. Sometimes you have to do that, life isn't just a risk management exercise. "Cheika has won titles north and south. Bernie, none. Cheika is the right guy, he needs to look at his tactics and selections. For example, he chose a non match fit Hooper to take on the All Blacks. He leaves points out there to go for a lineout that was faultering and employs a ball in hand game that eliminates opportunity for contestable kicking and kick chase. He is a pug brawler in big time boxing" First you tell me that Cheika is the right guy and then you go to list the numerous stuff ups that he has just made, to get us a particularly embarrassing Bledisloe loss. The bloke has had nearly four years in the role Mate and he still can't get it right, nothing is going to change that. Time to face facts and try something different.