Former Rebels number ten headlines New Zealand Super Rugby squads

he is a Kiwi so no qualification rule needed

If Jack Debreczeni excels at the Chiefs, the Brumbies better send Tony Pulu over to sign up for 2020 and beyond.

Rest assured that Robbie Abel and Olmstead have already been ear-marked for injury cover and a likely permanency once they get a foot into super rugby. As a Brumbies supporter, I don't even understand why the Brumbies released Robbie in favour of an old bugger and a yet to be proven youngster that only played super rugby last year as an injury cover.

Agreed, SMS

Is it the fault of the coaches that due to a number of factors, there's just not enough competition to really force players to improve to keep a contract? Players who struggle to crack the Super Rugby system in Australia are going overseas on good paying gigs which means we are losing a chunk of the possible alternatives. Then those who do crack it are going overseas for more money. So we lose another chunk of alternatives. Survival is the best form of motivation and coaches can't make a player think that he's easily dispensable when (and his manager) can see that he's not.

It is a pretty big sacrifice for a young man. Hamilton v Melbourne. Gee, no offence to the Waikato crew but it is a pretty stark difference. And he is choosing NZ (and specifically Hamilton) over other possible options like the UK or Paris. I think he may be outta there to pursue other options sooner rather than later. Like most young men there is more to life than rugby.

I find Ta’avao an interesting case. He was somebody Gibson presumably thought he could improve but he arrived average and left the same way. A year back in the system where he’d been ordinary and he was an AB. Maybe he just got better himself?

Yeah, he’s always been a star. If judging a coach was based on how good Ben Smith became I would be a world class coach

It doesn’t always have to be a fight Kirky. JD got plenty of chances at the Rebels and underwhelmed. I really hope he flourishes but surely the Rebels can’t be blamed for him not performing or letting him go. If Quade goes well and Jack lifts it’s win win isn’t it?

3 or 5 ?? new qualification rules now in effect?

he is contact - shy for a big boy. much like Curwin Bosch - but he is a small boy. but seemed to adjust to the physicality of Miter 10. so im hoping he plays to his size when given opportunity. Chiefs list only 4 centers - one is a given in ALB. so perhaps Sean Wainui may play there - as he did at Crusaders. others were bit part players last year - but then may step upp this year. i find the Chiefs mix a little strange - 22 of 38 are forwards. other teams have 18 backs.

Two things that are very hard to coach in sport are 1/ speed 2/ the creation of time and space. I always thought Jack Debreczeni looked like he had plenty of the latter. It’s no surprise to see him excelling over there. He has taken some time to adjust to the extra physicality of Super Rugby but there aren’t too many that haven’t. I would like to think we could get him back here sooner rather than later and as a more complete player he is challenging for Wallaby squads. For the last 25 years the NPC has been a finishing school for future Wallabies. It makes sense it’s a completely different environment and more intense and better standard of rugby but more importantly the better one on one coaching. The list is quiet long but to name a few Ben Darwin, Bill Young, Rod Moore etc. Steve Devine ended up being capped extensively as an All Black after going over to NPC because he could se no way through the halfback pecking order. If I was in charge of Rugby in Australia or RA has they have rebranded themselves. I would be concentrating on developing players centrally like Ireland have been doing for a while. The disconnection between unions/states is still too large.

We've got a large group of players that have clear deficiencies that don't look to have improved in our systems. The Skelton one is a massive case in point. Latu looks to be another. I think the coaches have to take some of the responsibility.

Correlation does not equal causation. A player going OS for a spell also naturally matures with time and may be a better player for it. It's not necessarily anything to do with coaching. Beale for example was a World Rugby player of the year nominee years ago. I don't think he's necessarily a better player now, just a more mature one. Same could be said for Skelton with finally taking some responsibility for his weight.

If his game improves immensely I hope this doesn't turn into another Pete Samu debacle.

I don't disagree in the slightest that we haven't been terribly good at developing quite a few players. The defensive issues of Foley, Cooper, Beale come to mind. Folau's kicking, passing and general reading of play. Skelton's fitness There are massive issues with our coaching that we have failed to develop plenty of these guys. But then again there are issues with our coaching that players get played out of position, that defence is treated as a game of musical chairs. That the overall team performance is so inconsistent and we have continually taken learnings or turned the corner. It isn't just player development that has taken a hit.

Jez, Fardy was the one I was thinking of, debuted for the wallabies at 30? Coleman I would argue had a fairly standard progression for a lock, debuted for the wallabies at 25 after 2 years as a starter at Super level. DHP spent 4 years overseas before coming back and starting to push for an international spot. It's the ones that seem to stall in their development in Australia that really bothers me. Jessie Mogg showed a lot of promise but had his confidence crushed. Dave Dennis spent years toiling away and never developing past a certain level then he goes to Exeter and he looks to have come along nicely there. Toomua, Beale, Skelton all these players who left when they appeared to have stalled but then seem to have improved in an environment other that Oz. Some of this may just be a depth issue, with a lack of competition in a position resulting in players getting complacent but it's the coaches job to kick them out of those bad habits.

Fardy left, came back and made the Wallabies as a 29 year old. Credit to Jake White for bringing him in to the fold and developing him. Adam Coleman (apart from being injury impacted this year) has developed such that he is one of our best locks at age 27. Dane Haylett-Petty has finally nailed his spot as a 29 year old.

I don't buy this "poorly coached" or "wasted by RA". He didn't set the world on fire as a 10 but appeared to be a pretty competent fullback. Though DHP is better and Maddocks has more potential. There are players like Reece Hodge from the Rebels that had the same structures around them and managed to shine, And Reece Hodge has very similar attributes to JD. I suspect it'll be a bit like when Ben Volavola went to the Crusaders. Many were dissing the Tahs for wasting him and saying now a real team will bring out his best. How'd that go? Good luck to him, and it's great he performed well in Mitre10, just as he had in NRC. But that's probabaly about the extent of the level of competition where he is able to shine. Good Super Rugby squad player, but not really destined for much more. Plenty of other player with more potential missing out already.

Thanks for the yarn. Does anyone know what happened to Murphy Taramai. Not re signed for the Blues ...