Blue versus red: A tale of two tribes

Yeah, all started with Jed Rowlands who was appointed in the hope that his Taranaki success would translate to SR success, which it didn't. Be interesting to see a world collected Auckland rugby raised team. Just adding Charles Piutau, Rene Ranger and Frank Halai would bolster that back line massively! Who's gonna coach 'em though!

Wow, thats a start... cmoooooon the Bluuuuuuuuuuuues!

Yep gotta agree. Started when Jed clampett took over. A long line of losing coaches bar henrys brief return to help out. But its also been a matter of players seeking elsewhere for careers. At some point every super rugby side in oz and nz have multipkd auckland reared players. Queensland reds had six at one point from memory. Many are now in the NH. In fact if you could select Auckland rugby raised side from the world over right now, Id say theyd win this years S Rugby easily. Might have a go at naming one. Im guess few would even be in the current squad.

I'm a Crusaders fan but a couple of years in Auckland made me a fan of them as well (in no small part because I loved my time in Auckland!). In 2014, I became an official support of a sporting club for the first time when I joined the BLues; my Blues membership card has Benji Marshall and Jerome Kaino on the front! Should be a good game this Saturday.

Neither do I and I had every reason too. I dont think the Saders scorer touches the ball until he scores it. The irony is it reminded of the bobbling ball when JK juggled it behind the line in 1985 with Canterbury pouring in on the up and under only for the ball to spill over the line, the match that tore the shield off Canterbury to start Aucklands 8 year, 61 match unbeaten run with the Shield, a record that will deeeeeeeefinitely never be beaten.

Yes it was pretty surreal then. The dominance was even more so than the crusaders have been from 84 thru to the Blues first wins. Such a pity we havent had a sustained period of both at the top. The AB sides from such arrangement would Im sure have been even better. With no real challenger the remaining franchises have had to fight for the scraps, and share what the saders didnt want. :-)

I use to hate the blues growing up in the 80's & 90's, due to their dominance. Now I have a smidgen of pity for them with a handful of wooden spoons. I predict my beloved Canes to topple the Crusaders and prevent a hat-trick of trophies. Go the Canes!!

Only trouble is Luke Whitelock is from Manawatu CUW, but generally most Super squads in NZ are made up from players in area with imports where needed or wanted, same as ITM cup etc, not a draft system as such, basically same as everywhere in most sports, players go where there are opportunities in their position.

I always thought the Blues problems were the board running them, they have always been reluctant seemingly to put the resources required into the team . They had Pat Lam a good coach who was absolutely hamstrung by having no assistants apart from say Jeff Wilson who was only part time etc, it really was poorly run, and has been shown by NZRU having to take over.

CUW, the NZ Super sides operate under a draft system. Players not chosen from their "home" Super province will be available to the other sides. For example Aaron Smith is a Highlander (Dunedin, South Island) but his home domestic province is Manawatu (?) in the North Island. This allows talent to be spread around. Players returning/coming in from overseas are a different kettle of fish again.

Yeah, it's like when a band calls themselves "Free Beer" - what's a bloke supposed to think ??!!

Geez I saw the heading and thought this was an article about NSW v Qld...

I agree that the franchises are different from the provinces, and players move around, and I am quite aware of the history of the NPC. I think it is fair to say that more talent has moved from out of the catchment of the Blues from players coming through the Auckland system and the surrounding areas attached to the Blues local catchment area, because of the coaching issues, as players have looked for better opportunities to shine in other SR teams. The Crusaders gather most of their players from the CHCH to the top of the south, which is their local catchment area of talent. I don't disagree with anything you say RT, but the main thrust of my post was do do with the Blues lack of hiring experienced proven coaches. I guess that it was my last point of Auckland talent being wasted that motivated your response, but the Auckland players who have played for the Blues in recent times have been let down with coaching, and many have moved for better prospects in other SR teams. Get the coaching setup right, and maybe we will see more Auckland based players playing in the Blues long term and not looking elsewhere eh?

its interesting that the Super teams were initially supposed to source from their catchment arreas but after a while players relocated in search of playing time and perhaps more money. i think the current system is a little like the footy scouting system for clubs - where talented players are offered contracts by other teams . There are few Auckland area players in other teams like Jack goodhue , Tumua Manu , Jack Whetton , Saleysi Riyasi.. simillarly there are few guys from crusaders areas in other teams like Reed Prinsep Luke Whitelock Tyrel Lomax Pari pri parkinson Shanon Friizzell Soloman Aleimalo ...

The Super Rugby franchises are not necessarily a reflection of where they are based, in terms of the playing rosters. The tribalism started well before Super Rugby was introduced and fans were very passionate about supporting their provincial team. Auckland players were generally sourced from their own catchment area and the same for Canterbury. I think I am right in saying that this subsequently turned into the NPC which has several names to the current Mitre10 Cup. In the 30 years since the event provincial championship Auckland (not the Blues) has won 15 times or 50%, Canterbury (not the Crusaders) has won 12 times. The present Super Rugby franchises are not really a true representation of the province they are located in.

I don’t recall any controversy over that try in 1998 but it was certainly scrappy and perhaps others will have better recall on this. No doubt it would have received a ton of scrutiny in the current era. The Crusaders under Blackadder’s coaching tenure always seemed to lack a degree of finishing power and creativity in the backs (Nadolo aside) and I was left with the impression that the All Blacks in the side frequently had their minds on international duty or were battling injury and form issues (e.g. Dagg). My other suggestions for Blackadder’s relative under performance is (a) that the quality of the teams has dropped since Blackadder’s departure especially in terms of the Australian sides and (b) the coaching rosters have also weakened in general (compared to Rennie, McKenzie, Cheika etc)

Whoops, I meant ROBERTSON, not Robinson. My dyslexia kicking in...

I enjoyed this article Brandon. For me, the reason for the Crusaders long term success, and the downfall of the blues, comes down to the coaching. Apart from Graham Henry, the Blues have not really had any coaches with proven success already at SR, or NH club, or a national junior side like Scott Robinson. John Kirwan had not really proven himself with Italy and Japan, as they had not really improved under his coaching. Tana Umaga was unproven as an already established coach capable of getting high results, and now we have Leon McDonald that the Blues are putting faith into that he can get high results as head coach, which he may, but is yet to be seen. These coaches have been in from 2013 - present, and so far the results are 10th, 10th, 14th, 11th, 9th, 14th. The Blues were far more consistent from 2002 - 2011, and they did hire some more experienced coaches then. Peter Sloan 2002 - 2005 came 6th, 1st (with Graham Henry coming back to assist it must be added), 5th and 7th. David Nucifora 2006 - 2008 came 8th, 4th, 6th, and Pat Lam 2009 - 2012 came 9th, 7th, 4th and 12th, slightly less consistency from Lam, and the last result obviously being the reason for his dismissal. Since then, the Blues have gone for coaches of even less experience than Lam, and the results should have been predictable because of that. Compare that to the quality of experience to coaches like Dave Rennie, Jamie Joseph, Colin Cooper, John Plumtree, Scott Robinson etc, and it displays a correlation to the other teams in NZ with their success of recent times, and why the Blues are struggling. Todd Blackadder was never really a proven coach before taking on the Crusader job, and despite success at making finals was good, with the quality of the players in skill and depth of squad, he was in for about 5 years too long as far as I am concerned, and it is no real surprise that Robinson has got the results that Todd Blackadder could never achieve, a SR title (or 2) to add to the cabinet. I predict more of the same from the Crusaders and Blues this year that we saw last year, with the Crusaders retaining a proven coach, and the Blues throwing the dice at another, but maybe Leon can bring in what the Blues have been missing. All I can say to Blues fans is, I wish you the best for an improved team, but if this coach doesn't work out, time to demand for a proven coach. Shame to see the amazing talent that Auckland produces going to waste.

What about that Saders try 1998, RT? Was there any noise about it back then?

Enjoyed your last sentence NV!... :)